Re: Ducks and Souls

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" wrote:

>>>> So one should rephrase: "Dr. J.S., based on his general
>>>> knowledge background, believes that duck was a symbol of the
>>>> universe, a conclusion not shared by others.".
>>>
>>> Note J.S. mentions duck with goose, Latin 'anser', German 'Gans'
>>
>>> *gHans-; note the unexpected initial, pointing to loan (and
>>> strengthening the suspicion of a pun).
>>
>> Why pun?
>
> Bad formulation. The presence of one more word beginning in an-, not
> the variation in the anlaut consonant, strengthens that suspicion.

From my point of view that's not enough for suspicion. Hypotheses
non fingere.

>>>> Not too much for evidence of a link with soul...
>>>
>>> Your conclusion about J.S.'s conclusion was hasty...
>>
>> Nope. You indicated a source to support your claim about linking
>> ducks with the notion of `soul` for some pre-historical moment. I
>> pointed out that your source doesn't offer too much support for
>> your claim.
>
> You were guessing J.S.'s made up the duck-soul link all by himself.
> That was hasty, given the other evidence easily found on the net.

Still wrong. J.S. himself claims his interpretation (link "duck-
universe" not "duck-soul") is not shared by other historians. The
links you provided over the net do not point towards a "duck-soul"
link but to other cultical interpretation ("duck-Sun" or not
precised).

> Yes, and the Andreas Hårde article is one of them. The title shows
> it contains some type of discussion of the duck-soul link.

I'm sorry to seem so nasty, but I fail to see any "soul" word in
the title of the article.

>>> Andreas Hårde, 1998
>>> Andlighet eller anklighet i Hallstatt?
>>> Spiritualism or just ducks in the Hallstatt culture?
>>> A critical study of the understanding of the iconography
>>> from a structural point of view with reference to the
>>> mythopoeia and interpretation of myth structures
>>> associated with bird depictions from Central Europe
>>> during the Urnenfelder period and the Hallstatt period
>>
>> The same: list of references. I haven't read his article and
>> you didn't provided at least a significent extract, along with
>> his bibliography.
>
> I haven't read it either. I just happened to know that the theory
> existed. If you you want to satify your curiosity, read the article.

Aaaah, so you didn't read it, but it just happens you know the
guy's theory makes a link "duck-soul" and you infer this article
should cunningly expose it. Have I got your point correctly?
Is this the only "factual" support for your "duck-soul" link?!

>> ... but doesn't tell what was actually the supposed cultic
>> meaning.
>
> So now you have one more reason for ordering Hårde's article.

Well, actually no. It is not me the one very interrested in
Halstattian ducks, it is you. You should have not claimed that
supposed link duck-soul without having read at least a piece of
evidence; rumors can be spread by anyone but fail to make it as
science. I was expecting you to be able to give here a phrase
from an article or a book, supporting that idea, not to make a
research over the net in order to justify aposteriori that your
conviction about duck-soul link is just fine. You presented
some links speaking about various cultic means of the ducks,
none of these being with the soul; now you pretend me to try
to find a quotation supporting your unsubstantiated claim?! :-)

>>> It took me 30 minutes to find these references on google. I wish
>>> you guys would do your homework better.
>>
>> This was not my research homework and
>
> The one you didn't do?

As said, Halstatt ducks are not exactly the subject of most books
on my work desk and unfortunately I find little arguments in order
to make a drastical change of the situation in near future.

>> OTOH your initial message was claiming that J.S. provides support
>> for your duck <-> soul link, not that ducks could have had some
>> cultic meaning according to various authors. Well, you still have
>> to argue that link.
>
> Yeah, right. Happy reading.

Thx a lot.

Regards,
Marius Iacomi