Re: Ducks and Souls

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" wrote:

>>> I trust the Slovenians.
>>
>> It's more likely a singular: Dr. Jozko Savli. [...]
>> the plural of authority, extensively used in scientific papers.
>> So one should rephrase: "Dr. J.S., based on his general knowledge
>> background, believes that duck was a symbol of the universe, a
>> conclusion not shared by others.".
>
> Note J.S. mentions duck with goose, Latin 'anser', German 'Gans' <
> *gHans-; note the unexpected initial, pointing to loan (and
> strengthening the suspicion of a pun).

Why pun?

>> Not too much for evidence of a link with soul...
>
> Your conclusion about J.S.'s conclusion was hasty...

Nope. You indicated a source to support your claim about linking
ducks with the notion of `soul` for some pre-historical moment. I
pointed out that your source doesn't offer too much support for
your claim.

> Found in
>
> http://www.hgo.se/nordark/sspa9196.pdf
>
> Andreas Hårde, 1994
> The divine duck of Hallstatt

So?! The pdf is nothing else than a list of references.

> Same guy, this time with _the_ pun:
>
> http://www.hgo.se/nordark/sspa9799.pdf
>
> Andreas Hårde, 1998
> Andlighet eller anklighet i Hallstatt?
> Spiritualism or just ducks in the Hallstatt culture?
> A critical study of the understanding of the iconography
> from a structural point of view with reference to the
> mythopoeia and interpretation of myth structures
> associated with bird depictions from Central Europe
> during the Urnenfelder period and the Hallstatt period

The same: list of references. I haven't read his article and
you didn't provided at least a significent extract, along with
his bibliography.

> Low-grade, but the rumour must have spread
>
> http://www.milanocastello.it/ing/sezionePreistoricaFerro.html

"A duck-shaped jar and bird-shaped cups seem to have been intended
for ritual purposes. According to Nordic mythology, in fact, the
aquatic bird is linked to the cult of the sun god, as it symbolizes
a boat with bird-shaped stem and stern carrying the sun around the
sky." are the only phrases regarding ducks. It's supposed meaning
of `Sun God` is not in clear fit with `symbol of the universe` and
by no means agreeing with `soul`.

> I wonder who 'ibid.' is here:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7171/celtic.html

The guy writes: "For example: "At Hallstatt, ducks appear swimming
up the supports of a bronze container, which also is further embossed
with ducks and wheels on its side." (ibid., p. 26) Apparently,
scholars believe that ornamentation of this kind was meant for
cultic purposes."
... but doesn't tell what was actually the supposed cultic meaning.

The "ibid." is of course, <Laing, Lloyd and Jennifer. Art of the
Celts. London: Thames and Hudson, 1991> as appears in the text.

> It took me 30 minutes to find these references on google. I wish
> you guys would do your homework better.

This was not my research homework and OTOH your initial message
was claiming that J.S. provides support for your duck <-> soul
link, not that ducks could have had some cultic meaning according
to various authors. Well, you still have to argue that link.

Regards,
Marius Iacomi