[tied] Re: Ducks and Souls

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:

> 10-09-03 11:31, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> >> > > That must have been me. Halstatt artefacts often carry

images

> > of
> >> > > ducks, Latin anat-, German Ente, Danish, Swedish and. I had

the

> >> > idea
> >> > > this might be an image for the (released?) soul, Latin an-

imus,

> >> > > Danish ånd, Swedish ande, from *an- "breathe" (Latin an-

helare,

> >> > Dansk
> >> > > ånde, Swedish andas).
> >> >
> >
> >> the bottom of
> >>
> >> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/An.html
> >>
> >> Ducks there too!
> >
> > Given the Greek 'nessa', the PIE duck word has been *nVs-, *anVs,

Correction: *nVt- *a-n(V)t-, of course!

> > which fits the structure of roots of Schrijver's 'language of

bird

> > names' (*raud-, *a-ru/id- "ore; copper" is also one of them),

which

> > means it's not a native IE word, but imported.
>
> Schrijver's name is taken in vain here.

Have I committed heresy again, oh abbot? ;-)

These are Schriijver's examples:
*mesVl-, *a-m(V)sl- "blackbird"
*la&waD-, *a-lawD- "lark"
*raud-, *a-ru/id- "ore"
*teroP, *a-str(a)P- "lightning, sulphur"
"
Most importantly, it had a prefix a-, which was probably stressed and
accompanied by syncope of vowels in the rest of the word;...
"
But I suppose you could fix them all by adding a *h2- in front of it.

>The PIE 'duck' word is
> *h2an&2t-/*h2n.h2t-íh2, and the <-ss-> of <ne:ssa> derives from *-

tj-

> (cf. the variant <ne:tta>, both from *na:tja < *h2n.h2t-ih2). The

root

> of Lat. anas is of course /anat-/, gen. anatis. No need to posit a
> borrowed root; the word is widely attested (cf. Lith. ántis and

Slavic

> *o~ty), and all its reflexes derive unproblematically from the

forms

> given above.
>

Tell Schrijver.

> The 'breathe' root is *h2anh1-, and Germanic *-d- in *an(V)d- (see
> below) is the Vernerian reflex of suffixal *-t-
>
> Here's the link to the original Cybalist discussion:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/5938
>
> The duck/soul pun works in Scandinavian only, since the 'duck' word

and

> the word for 'breath', *an(V)do: (variant of weak masculine *an(V)d-

an-)

> merge as <önd> in Old Norse.

Actually, besides Old Norse only in Swedish ('and' "wild
duck", 'anka' "domesticated duck" vs. ande "spirit"); Danish
has 'and' vs. 'ånd'.

>The words are different (though similar)
> e.g. in Old English (<æned> vs. <anda>) and OHG (<anat, -ot, -et, -

it>

> vs. <an(a)do:>). The pun won't work in any known form of Celtic,

since

> the Celtic 'duck' words are _not_ derived from the root in

question, or

We are talking about the surviving inscriptions in Halstatt Celtic,
right? :-)

> from anything else sinmilar to Celtic *anatla: 'breath' < *h2an&1-

tlah2.

> Needless to say, it won't work in Greek or Latin either.

That might be why you don't find so many ducks on Roman and Greek
artefacts.

Torsten