Re: [tied] Re: alb. gji (breast) - maybe PIE *sei-N-

From: alex
Message: 25263
Date: 2003-08-23

m_iacomi wrote:
> Yeah, right. See the expression "a scuipa în sân", equally valid for
> men and women, in which "sân" means `bosom`.

Keep your expresion in mind. We will comme on it. For me :
breast= piept, sân
bosom, tit= TâTã; as educated person, one will use "sân" for female's

>> a meaning of the "educated" society which felt the word "TâTã" as
>> vulgare, thus they prefered using "sân".
> "TâTã" means `breast`, not `bosom`.

TâTã means "teat", the organ wherefrom come milk. Nothing more. And this
is for women or female animals the same word. The absolutely only word
for the place wherefrom the milk come.

> False. It means also `bosom`, by all means.

I see it is a later denomination. See it's derivative family.

> "Wise" guess. Based on... ?!

Richard explained a bit, I will continue bellow.

>> There are good reasons to belive this meaning from the expresions
> which
>> are stil alive in the langauge and from the object of clothes which
> are
>> used with the meaning of bag.
> Can you be more specific?!
> Cheers,
> Marius Iacomi

sân= cf DEX
1) each one of the both mamels of the woman.; breast.
2) the chest
3) part of the chemise ; the space betwen breast and chemise where one
can keep something
4) the part of the trawl as a pocket where are collected the fishes.
5) the place where is developing and is kept the foetus (uterus)
6) breast, heart ( thought to be the place of the sentiments)
7) the midle of the earth; the midle of something.
8) reg. and old, geogrphical = gulf

Now expresions which i will translate mot a mot and I will give the
meaning of these expresions, why they are used.

a scuipa in sân = to spit in and breast ( place between chemise and
Meaning: to avoid happening something bad you have to spite this way.
Superstions of the folk.

a fi cu crucea în sân= to be with the cross in the breast ( too, place
between chemise and breast)
Meaning: to have fear of god, to be a god christ but too , the same one
is to be hypocrite.

a trâi ca in sânul lui Avram= to live like in the breast of Abraham.
Meaning: to have a very good life. I am not aware of the story with
Abraham and why one should live god there:-)

a trece un sarpe prin sân: to cross a snake in breast
Meaning: to have fear, to have felt the fear as a snake in the breast.

s-a dus la sânul pãmântului: is gone to the breast of the earth.
Meaning: to go until the midle of the earth.

a Tine un Sarpe la sân: to kep a snake at the breast
Meaning: to help someone which later will make you something bad.

On the basis of the meanings and in the expresions which are used, it
seems there is no connection with the female teat, but the word have
meant something like a space where to put/keep something; the sence of
"female bosom" appears to be the very last one and I wonder if this is
not a semantical "import" due french or italian because no expresion
used by folk is related to meaning female's teat.

Now, speaking about sân, the usualy meaning is the one of the place
between chemise and breast ( no. 3 cf. DEX). None can say "ma doare in
sân" for meanig he has aches in the breast, but he will say " ma doare
in piept". A educated female when going to the doc will use "sân" for
her tit, a peasant will use "TâTã". The word "TâTã" remain absolutely
the only one which is used when refering to the place wherefrom the milk
comme on the natural way. And this does not means the litle nipple but
the bole bosom. For the nipple there is the word "sfârc" ( unknown