Re: [tied] Proto-Indo-European WITCH

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:05:24 +0200, Piotr Gasiorowski
> <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>
> >16-08-03 17:05, lifeiscool86 wrote:
> >
> >> Proto-Indo-European WITCH
> >>
> >> Is there an IE etymology for the word"witch", or possibly a

cultural

> >> approach to this said being. [Note: remove the negative medieval
> >> attachments]. Some people say, it comes from the Anglo-Saxon
> >> word "wica" (PIE *weik?/*weid?) which means "wise" and refers to

the

> >> wise ones of the community. But, personally I doubt this
> >> (although "witan" would be plausible). I don't really know what

the

> >> PIE word means -- probably "to see" or "to know" -- something

which

> >> denotes wisdom or knowledge; but I believe the Anglo-Saxon word
> >> for "wise" is "wys" or "wit" right? So, what is this word "wica"
> >> supposed to mean? Some say, it means "to bend" suggesting a

magician

> >> of some sort; and for some, a sort of plant.
> >
> ><wise> and <wit> are related, and both cone from PIE *weid- 'see,

know'.

> >The word <witch> cannot be related to them; OE f. wicce and m.

wicca

> >look as if they derived from Gmc. *wik-j-o:n- (cf. also the OE

verb

> >wiccian 'practice witchcraft, bewitch' < *wik-j-o:jan- and the

adjective

> ><wicked>). The *wik-j- part can go back to Pre-Gmc. *wig-j(o)- or
> >*weg-j(o)-; in the latter case we get the attractive possibility

that

> >it's derived from PIE *h2weg^- 'be strong/lively' (magic and

strength

> >often go together in etymologies).
>
> However, there are alternative possibilities. Problem is that OE -

cc- can

> go back, I think, to any of PIE *k (Verner), *g and *gh before *j,

and -i-

> to either *(e)i or *i.
>
> The following roots in Pokorny may or may not be relevant:
>
> *aweg^/*aug^-/*weg^- "be fresh, strong" *wog^-ro-s "strong" (gives

e.g.

> wake)
>
> *weg^h- "to move". This is where my Dutch etym. dictionary places

wichelen

> "practivce sorcery" (Du. wegen "weigh", wikken "weigh repeatedly",

wiggen

> "move", wiggelen "waggle", wichelen "practice sorcery", MLG wicken,
> wichelen "practice sorcery", OE wi:glian "practice sorcery", wigle
> "sorcery")
>
> 1. *weik- "to set apart" (Goth. weihs "holy", weihan "consacrate",

OE

> we:oh, wi:g "pagan idol", German Weih-nachten, weihen "consacrate")

This is

> where IEW puts wicca, wicce. [IEW: Beziehung zu 4. weik-, weigh-

"biegen"

> usw. ist nicht ausgeschlossen]
>
> 2. *weik- "energische, bes. feindselige Kraftäusserung"; *woika:
> "Lebenskraft" (Goth. weihan "to fight, wage war", Latin vincere)
>
> 4. *weik-, *weig- (extended from *wei- "to bend"): Germanic words

for

> willow etc. < *weik-, Germanic weak, wicker from *weig-)
>
>

1. and 2. are probably related. Once you hurled a spear over the
enemy, as far you were concerned they were dead men walking,
consecrated, being in a special sphere between life and death, cf
Latin 'victima'. 'Vincere' takes an object.

Danish 'vige' "yield, give up" as in battle.

Which brings us closer to witchcraft. Aren't some geminates supposed
to be the result of hypochoristic short forms of long personal names?
Does that extend to nouns in general?

Is it derived from a causative *weik^-ye/o- "make yield"/"make weak"?

Torsten