Re: [tied] Re: Japanese and Indo European

From: AlmogĂ ver
Message: 24916
Date: 2003-08-01

I dont really thing it's a discussion theme on this list, but
 
>The gerund(ive) form is tabete 'eat-ing.'  To say 'I am eating,' you
would say "(watashi ga) tabeteimasu," I believe.
 
The -masu forms are the modern standard ("plain" or "polite") for "non past" (imperfective) forms (-ru) and they are constructed from one of the root forms ending in -(void) or -i.
 
So, "tabe(ru)" renders -> tabe-masu while "ik(u)" renders -> iki-masu
 
Thus, the actual durative form is -TE IRU > I'm eating = "Boku wa tabete iru (no da)"

>The form 'taberu' is from the root tabe- and the suffix -u, with
/r/
as an epenthetic consonant.
Right. But  -ru forms ARE "non past" (non finished) actions, not verbal infinitives. They are used as the "dictionary form" as well, so we tend to think of them as "infinitives". Infinitives are the nominal form of verbs, and Japanese responds to that nominalizing this -ru form like this: taberu-koto or just taberu-no. This construction from -ru forms also contributes to confusion, of course, but we have to take it as a sole construction -ru-koto/no.

> Neither the term "present participle" nor the form {tabende}
 
Of course it's not. They don't exist. "Present participle doesn't mean anything in Japanese, and taberu is a -(void) verb and thus it renders "tabeTE".
 
are
> mentioned. Forms ending in {-nde} are usually the gerund forms
of n-
,
> m-, and b- stems, e.g. {sinu - sinde, nomu - nonde, yobu -
yonde}.

Sin-u : sin-te :: nom-u : nom-te :: yob-u : yob-te
 
[Actually I prefer standard Romaji, you should get a newer/non American book]
 
SHInu -> SHInde ; nomu -> nonde  ; yomu -> yonde

>It appears that *wa was a topic marker in
Nostratic -- cf. Semitic
nominative *-u, PIE pronominal nominative *-u, PU reflexive > medio-
passive *-u.
Modern Japanese "wa" is just an oral form. Written form still preserves ancient "ha". It is a topic marker, not an agent introducer, which is "ga".
 
Regards.