Re: [tied] Pictish --------- (ORIGIN OF PICTS)

From: ardfilidh
Message: 24869
Date: 2003-07-28

there are gaelic sources from the early middle ages that identify
the picts as being the indigenous people, or at least there before
the gaels. this has made many think the cruinthe(what gaels called
them) were brythonic, but possibly a separate dialect from that
spoken in wales and as far as strathclyde. there are latter gaelic
sources that are clumsy propoganda that the gaels were there first
but they(the leabhear gabhala) mention the previous inhabitants the
cruinthe and severaql peoples before them. these aren't very
reliable but the annals of ulster and the annals of connacht do
mention several regiuons in the north of ireland speakinmg their own
languages and having their own kings, as cruinthe, and they seem to
have existed up to the tenth century about. after that they seem to
have been assimilated. they were a minority, and it's not impossible
that there were non indoeuropean influences as well. as the
phoenecians traded to ireland, but possibly through intermediaries.
there are also the elusive thirty or so words in ogham that are said
to not be indoeuropean. however i've never seen a convincing
argument whay that would be the case. they seem to me to be just as
easily archaic words from celtic languages.

the gealic sources do seem to differentiate between cruinthe and the
welsh or strathclydian people. they were well familiar with both.

as far as st columba goes. the irish gaels were settled on the
southwest coast a century at least before he arrived so the
strathclydian brythons were likely familiar with gaelic. the northen
regions however were a backwater and largely unpopulated so few went
there untill the norse introduced the superior boats and seaman ship
that made the exploitation of resources there practicle. in fact the
region was likely mostly norse untill well into the tenth century.
the "pictish population would have been tiny compared to the
immigrants. however the norse intermarried with gaels and kept that
language, while not maintaining ther pictish tongue. lewis gaelic
still has a lot of norse in it. so what the picts actually spoke
seems unknowable. however i vote a dialect of brythonic, with an
outside chance of a smattering of somer iberian language.