Re: [tied] Latin verus

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:43:05 +0000, m_iacomi <m_iacomi@...> wrote:

> Molt bé. I made two assertions: the first is that Italian linguists
>(may I here mention e.g. Devoto & Oli, editors of Garzanti and other
>less known) still make the term to derive from OF. This is a fact.

Of course. It merely caught my attention that Coromines explicitly denies
it.

> The second part, with respect to etymology of OF "cosin" (and, by
>the same token, of Occitan & Catalan forms), is pointing out in
>which way a part of the original "consobrinu(s)" disappeared to
>give "cosin(u)", be it linked or not with "primu", this being also
>the "official" French viewpoint. I am affraid that Coromines does
>not answer to that: his "cosin-" part still needs an explanation.

The explanation given by Coromines is more or less along the lines of:

>"del ll. consobrinus primus 'cosí primer' per una
>alteració fonètica complexa: cosob(r)inprimu, cosuinprimu,
>cosinprim, cosin, quan cosí prim alternà amb cosí segon".

[this looks like a digest of Coromines' article].

Basically, what Coromines says is that he doesn't accept any expressive /
child-language shortening of stand-alone CONSOBRINU > COSINU. According to
him, the shortening occurred exclusively in the long formulas
CONSOBRINUPRIMU, CONSOBRINUSECONDU, especially in the first and most used
one (with its near reduplication -BRIN(..)PRIM-). As proof he adduces the
S. Italian words conzuprimu, cunzuprinu, etc. Then, either the -prim(o)/
-se{gc}ond(o) was chopped off (Fr., Cat., Ita.) or alternatively, the
*cosin(o)- was (Cast., Port.).

>> In case the meaning is not altogether clear:
> [...]
> Coneix el català, moltes gracies. :-)

[Conec]

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...