Re: Enclosed Places

> Massive loss of interest? But I suppose Hebrew qirya: 'city'

offers

> an interesting parallel. (I'd better check it - I only remember it
> in the construct form, qiryat.) Do you want Hebrew 3i:r 'city' as
> well? ('3' = ayin.)

There's a town named Qiryat Shmona in Israel. Is the -t feminine, or?

>
> > Møller in his juxtaposition of Semitic and
> > IndoEuropean roots deals sytematically with an IE dh/t etc
> > alternation (that should take care of _hortus_) and perhaps that
> > alternation, or perhaps the general tone of dissatisfaction of

this

> > discussion should taken as a sign that this is a loan.
>
> Which is what Piotr's been saying all along, but thinking in more
> parochial terms, such as Germanic > Slavonic, for which the

phonetics

> fit quite well.
>
> > More generally, it seems to be composed of the *k-r- (*kW-l, *g-l-

> > etc etc) root (see Bomhard for a flood of these "turn, wrap,
> rotate"
> > roots, another sign it was borrowed) plus a passive participle
> > forming *-t- or -dH-, thus "something that has been encircled"

(cf

> > Latin cardo "axis"; cor, cordis "heart (center of the body)".
>
> Yep, Pokorny relates both Latin hortus 'garden', PIE
> *g'Herdh 'enclosure' and Pre-Slavonic *gHerdH 'enclosure' to PIE
> *g'her (no. 4) 'enclose', Root #658.
>
> What's this past participle in -dH-?
>

cf.
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/H_and_N_ablaut.html

It's probably not Austronesian, since its roots has the general
structure C1VC2VC3 where C2VC3 is the stem and C1 a prefix. But verbs
with passive focus do have a suffix -n, which one might perhaps
compare to the IE ppp -t- (through so-called 'ablaut', whatever the
real mechanism behind it is). Also the Austronesian
*kurung/*kuDung "enclosure" root would seem to have suffix, which
also isn't Austronesian (note the variant forms). But what? I noted
that in some Austro-Asiatic(?) language (I read it in austronesian, I
believe) *kin- is an animal prefix, which may make it the ancestor of
the global 'dog' word. Has *k-r- "encircle" a similar source?

Torsten