Re: [tied] Re: Enclosed Places (was: The unexplained link between G

From: alex
Message: 24559
Date: 2003-07-16

Lisa Darie wrote:
> Lat. 'urbs, urbis'
> Skr. 'vardh' "to make strong", 'urjihana' "city"
> Pers. 'vardana' 'walled city" - see Vardar River
> Rmn. 'uluc' "wicker-work, paling"

Rom. "uluc" cf DEX = from Turkish "oluk"


> 'gard' "fence", 'ingradite' "enclosed", Gradiste - fortresse
> Skr. 'gara, dhara, godha'
> 'ardha' "land", 'ard' "plough"
> Rmn. 'gradina' "garden", Italian 'giardino', French 'jardin'
> The words for garden in Italian, Romanian and French are closely
> related, which indicate their Latin origin.

And which should be the Latin word?:-)
It ought to observe that French, Italian present the non-methatesised
form as in Germanic. French and Italin got their word from Germans. The
Romanian word present the methathesis and this phoenomenon is usual just
for the Slavic languages and for Albanian. The Slavs _could_ borrow it
directly from Germanic or from Romanians but the actual form in Rom.,
missing a better explanation seems to be a re-loan from Slavic or from
Albanian ( Alb. has "gradinë" and it seems to be a new word since the
"d" intervocalic is preserved). Thus, since begining with the VI century
any contact between Rom. and Alb. is excluded then it remains just the
Slavic alternative for the metathesised word.It does not help to say
that the clusters "gra-" initialy and the cluster "gar-" are both to
find in Rom. cf "gard, garnita, gargara, garoafa, etc" and "graba,
greaban, grinda, groapa, grĂ¢u, etc".It does not help because there is no
root known as "grVd-" with a similar meaning and Latin "gradus" is from
the meaning far away for this issue.

> The presence of the word
> in Slavic languages certainly proves they were borrowed from the
> Romanian language, the only Latinic language of contact.

See what I said above.

> Italian and
> French languages did not borrow the word from Slavic or Romanian.

But from Germans.

> Italian, French and Romanian are genetically related languages.

On the mother side or on the father side?:-)

> Lisa

Alex