--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> It is actually very tempting to see this as referring
> to the arrival of the Tatar-Mongols in Eastern Europe.
> Here "Oguz Khan" would stand for the Grand Khan of
> Qaraqorum, "Qiptchaq" for what subsequently became the
> Golden Horde with its capital at Sarai, "Urus" for the
> Rus' states, "Magar" for Hungary (occupied by Batu for
> a few years), "Bashqurd" for territories east of the
> Volga, and "Ulak" for an early Vlach presence north of
> the Danube. Things don't have to fit precisely in
> epics, but the thing hangs together well enough.
> Still, it's obviously a take it or leave it
> interpretation.******
george knysh wrote:
>
> It is actually very tempting to see this as referring
> to the arrival of the Tatar-Mongols in Eastern Europe.
> Here "Oguz Khan" would stand for the Grand Khan of
> Qaraqorum, "Qiptchaq" for what subsequently became the
> Golden Horde with its capital at Sarai, "Urus" for the
> Rus' states, "Magar" for Hungary (occupied by Batu for
> a few years), "Bashqurd" for territories east of the
> Volga, and "Ulak" for an early Vlach presence north of
> the Danube. Things don't have to fit precisely in
> epics, but the thing hangs together well enough.
> Still, it's obviously a take it or leave it
> interpretation.******
I see it in the same way. It is not something very clear
which can lead us to have a deffinitive opinion about it.
As for myself , I don't give an excesive attention to it.
For me the strongest reason of Romanins being North of
Danube is the Slavs. The events in the Slavic world
begining with VII century until XIV century. To quote you
George, if a folk was showed for a periode of time in a
place and they simply dissapier, then something major
happened( see the theritory of Wallachei and Moldawia
which was known as "Slavic country" in certain period
of time). The simply fact in in that geographical no
slavic state arrised in that area shows there has been
something which did not allowed something like this to
happen. This "something" is subject of discussion,
but it cannot be put out of the game.
Alex
P.S.
I remembered about the region Dobrogea and the supposed
derivation of its name from the despot Dobrotici. I
wondered every time I tough about wherefrom this "g" there
and how should be posible a derivation from Dobrotici >
Dobrogea since the derivation should have given
Dobrot+suffix or Dobrotic+ suffix.
Reading the book of Ptto J. Maenchen, I found an interesting
name in the time of huns there "Dabragezas" and this word
should be seen a word of Antes. I give the text here
(Die Welt der Hunnen, Otto J.Maenchen-Heften, ISBN 3-205-07119-0 ),
page 271:
"In seinem Bericht vom Krieg in Lazica, im Jahre 556 (Note 222)
erwähnt Agathias (Note 223) unter den byzantinischen Offizieren
barbariscehn Herkunft einen Hunnen namens "Helmingeiros"; er
war "lochagos", Komandant eines "lochos", eines Regimentes. Agathias
nennt auch den Namen und die Nationalität von Elmingeiros'
Vorgesetzten: Es war der "taxiarchos" Dabrageza vom volk der Anten....
Dabrageza (Note 224) muss von jene Anten gekomen sein, die nach der
Angabe von Procopius gemeinsam mit Hunen und Sclavenen "jenseits der
Donau oder nicht weit von Ihr wohnten"..
-----------------------------------------
Note 224 of the author, about Dabragezas:
-----------------------------------------
Der Name enthält vielleicht slawisch "dobry" (gut).
Note of Alex:
and will explayn this strange "g" there in "Dobrogea".
Alex