Re: [tied] Re: "vatër" vs "vatra"; "veter-" vs "batran"

m_iacomi wrote:

> One has to remind this issue has also been discussed on another
> list (also with Romance details).
> Out of that, the choice of /b/ instead of /v/ doesn't play
> for _related_ inheritage of "bãtrân" from "vetera:nus" and
> "vechi" from "veclus". Words were already different and were
> no longer felt as belonging to a same family.

I do not see them at all related.

>
>>> [vetulus >] veclus > vechi= old for inanimate
>>> vetulus > vãtui = old for animate.
>>
>> Are you sure it is not vitellus > vatui? I don't
>> have the dictionary at hand (until tomorrow).
>
> Hehe, of course the last one is Alex' invention, both in meaning
> and probable origin. The real meaning is _not_ `old for animate`
> but `baby animal (goat, lamb, calf, rabbit) up to one year old`
> (also `[young deer] leather`). Its etymologic ancestor is Latin
> "*vituleus" < "vitulus" (`calf`).

hehe.. of course you are showing a deep ignorance here. In Prahova "mai
vãtui" is still means a guy which is older.
you are right in what you say as "vãtui"= baby goat or baby rabbit but
you are wrong when you speak about "calb"="vãtui". ( NEVER CALB;for calb
you have MÂNZAT).
Now beside the meaning, you (you= adepts of these pseudolatin words) are
as usual blowing up the latin word. Let us make from "vitulus" an
*vituleus for allowing the Rom. "vãtui".
Since in Albanian is the root "vet-" the easiness of acceptance "vãtui"
< latin *vetuleus is more as susspect.
Latin "vetus"= old. Român "vãtui"= old ( OK, just regional) but in the
whole language it means "until one year old". The fact the word is not
related to any "calb" since for calb there is mânzat, shows clear this
is no *vituleus there but there are 3 words which are appropiate
phoneticaly, in every language having appropiate but not identical
meanings. So there is no basis for making any connection between vãtui
and "vitulus" but a more stronger basis for "vãtui" with "vetus" since
the meaning is related to "old" and not to "calb". In the same manner is
to make the corelation with Alb "vjet"

>
>>> Here, as in "vita/viata", "vitelus/viTel" is allways
>>> a small difference, but enough for not allowing these
>>> words to derive from Latin.
>
> Obviously, that's only for Alex who still doesn't realize
> that differences between long/short (-> stressed/unstressed)
> Latin vowels lead to different phonetical histories. This
> list (and not only) contains full discussions of this word
> which should have been more than enough.
>
> Cheers,
> Marius Iacomi

Mr Iacomi it seems you missed the whole discution here otherways you
won't say a such nonsense. There is no "vitel" from "vitelus" and that
not because of "T" and there is no "viaTa" from "vita". I don't guess
there is any need to re-debate it.

alex