Re: Labiovelar in Latin

From: tolgs001
Message: 21943
Date: 2003-05-16

>the nord dacoromanian dialect of Maramuresh

It is no dialect, it is a sub-dialect. The "rank"
of a dialect is held by the entire Romanian language
in contrast with the other dialects called Aromanian,
Meglenite and Istria-Romanian (which are so remote
and different that we'd rather need a translator in
order to make real conversation with them).

The Maramuresh sub-dialect is almost identic with
what's spoken outside of it, in several other
counties (Cluj, Salaj, Satu Mare, Bihor, Arad,
Hunedoara - as well as to a great extent neigh-
boring Bistritza-Nasaud).

>(I guess it was one with a predisposition for a stronger
>satemisation lost the "W" in a very old stage and gave
>the satem form with "z" gWem> g'en > zen = "a zâni"= to
>come because a change /vi/ > /zi/ is too explain just
>this way I guess.

It is not. This is no *gWem > g'en > zen whatsoever
(this assumption of your author a consummate malarkey).
"a zîn~i" is a mere further distorsion of "a vin~i",
within the Transylvanian family of Romanian sub-dialects.

This is only a Romanian peculiarity, namely
of having the initial [v] > [z] and [Z] in Northern
Romanian-speaking areas: for the Maramuresh [z] you
have beyond Cârlibaba, in neighboring North Moldavia,
[Z] (viti$oarele > jiti$oarele); but also in other
neighboring "belts" (as geographically seen from them
to the South), where e.g. vinars (= vin+ars "burnt
wine") "brandy" > [Zinars] and [dZinars].

NOTA BENE: nobody - from Arad+Bihor through Maramuresh
to Moldavia + Ukraine doesn't say *g'inars or *g'ine,
instead of vinars/ginars/jinars and vine/zine+zîne.
And I doubt that aMaramuresher would ever say *zin
instead of vin ("wine").

Because, after all, these z & Z alterations of the
v (always of the v) are rather exceptions, not the
rule: the certain sub-dialect speakers themselves
do not apply this change to all words starting with
a v-.

George