From: alex_lycos
Message: 21882
Date: 2003-05-15
----- Original Message -----
From: "tolgs001" <gs001ns@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:31 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: PIE *ghe(n)d
> >And your opinion about? You must have a feeling about the
> >language and compare with other derivatives the derivatives
> >of "gond".
>
> As you can see, many more derivations in Hung
>
> >So, what is your opinion? Is this a loan from
> >hungarian or not?
>
> What should I say? If wise guys say it is borrowed
> from them neighbors, it might be
>
> It might OTOH have been that it became popular
> in Romanian while/because vb. "a păsa, păsare" +
> "păs" and vb. "a cugeta, cugetare" + subst. "cuget"
> narrowed their scope and/or went through semantic
> mutation..
>
> >Alex
>
> George
I asked because the "wise guys" suppose the word was loaned not directly
from Hungarian but via Bulgarian or an another Slavic dialec.For the
Hungarian "on" becoming an "â" in Rom. there is no other example as this
"gond". For romanian /ã/ & /â/ becoming /o/ in Hungarian there are
several examples. Phoenticaly the evolution *ghe(n)d > gând is very
regulary into Rom. The last one, the Hungarian linguists consider their
word with unknown etym. Pretty interesting.The absence in aromanian is
weakening the hypothesis this is an inherited word in Rom. but the
presence in Albanian would confirm the word is inherited. The
semanticaly difference between Alb. & Rom. is playing here an important
role for the argumentation. Honestly, I should like to see if the word
appear in "Codicele de la Ieud" considered now to have been written in
1391.
Since you speak Hungarian and Rom. can you remember of Hungarian words
which have an /o/ within the word and it is rendered as /a/ in Rom.? If
yes we can assume that the Hungarian /o/ was felt as /a/ by Rom.
speakers and /a/>/ã/>/â/ before /n/ in a regular way.
Alex