Re: Alb. "sht-"

From: tolgs001
Message: 20937
Date: 2003-04-11

altamix@ wrote:

>It is not to accept the sonorisation of "c" into "g"
>from Latin times until RPC

How do you know that? In those centuries, when...
Italians spoke Latin, they used this letter, "C"
(and occasionally and in pre-classic times "K"
as well). They didn't have any "G" letter. That's
why Gaius Iulius Caesar was spelled CAIVS IVLIVS
CAESAR, wasn't it?

>and it is not to accept a such semantic shift.

You'd better write "I do not accept/I won't accept..."

>If I accept the meaning of "stancus"= left,
>with the justify " being tired, a person
>cannot act anymore as usual, so he become
>a bit clumsily so the motion

... "awkard"...

>he makes is slowly and unsual" they can explain
>the word "stângaci" but not "left side".

"stângaci" means "left-HANDed"; it is this the
intermediary meaning that once allowed the word
(be it a... Dacian one or be it a Romance one)
to be extended in its meaning to "the left" <stânga>,
opposed to "the right" <dreapta>. ("dreapta" itself
has a curious etymology direct- > dirept > feminine
direapta > dreapta; whereby the older forms: dirept,
direapta + their substantive direptate exist still

>And if it is to explain this way, then the Rom. Word
>"stâng" is _identicaly_ with Albanian "stang" and
>not with Latin "stancus".

Maybe. But this still doesn't explain anything
that would be satisfactory to you: namely, that
those Albanian-Romanian "doublettes" are proven
remnants of the Dacian-Moesian idiom (or of the
Thracian one for that matter).

>For your information for Albanian word:
>stang= I.erstaren lassen, starr machen,;(-et) wie erstarrt
>stehenbleiben, wie angewürzelt stehen bleiben. II Adv. starr

After all, this sta-/ste- (or st+vocal-) thing
meaning stay/stagnation as well as hardened
seems to be a pan-IE occurrence.

>(mbeti stang)=er blieb wie angewurzelt stehen.
>You see , the Albanian word is phonetically identically
>with the Romanian one but it is not the same semantism too.

For semantics, have a look at another word family
in Romanian: <a sta>/<stare> 'stay, stand'.

>The semantism of the Albanian word is to put here
>in connection with the Rom. "stâncã"= rock, cliff.
>The expressions which are used by Albanians like
>"erstarren lassen" are used in Romanian in the same
>way, but not with the derivatives of "stânca"= rock

Then why do you mention this? In Romanian, the related
words "stanca, stana, stean" (all meaning stages/kinds
of petrification: stone, boulder, cliff) are for the
native speaker neither transparent towards the
meaning "hardening/solidification", nor regarding
the other two ones: (1) "to stay/stand", (2) "on the
left hand; left-handed" -> <stâng, stânga; plural:
stângi>, as well as the extended meaning "awkward,
clumsy, all fingers thumbs."

Without learned stuff provided by etymologists, you
yourself would never have thought of such possible

>how I showed long time ago

*As* ("how" e greseala mare cat casa!)

>(A Propos Mr George, ever thought about the Romanian
>names as Stanca, Stancu, Stãnciulescu

Their models are the South-Slavic names Stanko and
Stanc'-o/-ev (e.g. Stantcho/-ev). And are related
to further Slavic onomastic occurrences such
as Stankowski, Stankowiak, Stankiewicz...

>the little bird "stãncuTã" and the
>Stângu, Stângaciu

Even if these two categories are related, their
kinship is not a... direct one.

>Hope is enough material of thinking for you
>before you use an expression as "reasons
>which hardly pertaining to linguistics judgement"

I was alluding to something else (your recent
exchanges with a certain netizen). OTOH, as
for your "enough material", thanks - I'd
rather say enough is enough. ;) But don't
worry and take it easy. :)

>and adopt the position of a teacher who
>unfortunately cannot shows too much in this
>relation Latin "stancus" versus Albanian "stang"
>and Rom. "stâng"

I only took part in this thread as any sub-
scriber to the list is entitled to. Incidentally,
reminding you that you once had had the occasion
to get a good explanation on that.

(NB: The Romanian adjectives "stâng,-a" and
"stângaci,-e" have nothing to do with any of
the meanings "stay/stand/remain/hardening/