Re: albanian prefix "stër-"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Abdullah Konushevci" <a_konushevci@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 7:11 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: albanian prefix "stër-"
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:
> > Which is the origin of the prefix "stër-" in Albanian?
> >
> > I mean here the compund prefix in words like: stërgjyshe ,
> stërnip, etc
> > where the prefix "stër-" play the role of the german "ur-" and in
> some
> > situations the english "great-" like in great-grand-mother
> >
> > Alex
> ************
> I wonder much more than anyone about the origin of one of the most
> productive Albanian prefix stër-, which I find synonym of the

number

> four in Albanian katër- used as prefix. So, we have, except
> stërgjysh 'grand-father' also katragjysh 'grand-father', that make
> very doubtful Meyer's and Weigand's explanation
> (According to Meyer and Weigand this prefix is derived from Lat.
> extra or It. stra-. To this source they send also Romanian strâ-:
> strâbat, strânepot.)
> I mean that its origin must be in PIE *kwetwer->kw(e)twer 'four'
> with meaning to make something small. As I have explained once,
> labiovelar *kw- gives in Albanian regularly /-s-/. Otherwise, if we
> see katër `four' we may notice that second part -twer developed

in -

> tër. It can be easy explained, if we get, besides PIE *kwetwer also
> an synonymic one *kwotwor with treating the diphthong /uo/ > /a/ as
> is treated diphthong /au/ > /a/. PIE *a and *o (I mean short

vowels)

> both derives in Albanian /a/
>
> Konushevci
>
>
>
> I guess the people with the eyes on Latin language, these builders

of a

> lot of fantasist hypothesis here, unfortunately trough their

authority

> and views, they obstructed for long time a better research onto

this

> field.
> Let us see the "stër-" in Albanian which has its counterpart in

Romanian

> "strã-".
> In Rom. too, this prefix is very productive but I guess it ought

to see

> it a bit deeper not just in the words where this plays the role of
> prefix. I can list some of them:
>
> Alb <--> Rom
>
> stërkeqet = to foul, to become ill a strica = to foul, to

become

> ill
> stërpik = to spurt a stropi = to spurt
> stërgjysh = g.g. father strãmoS = gg.father
> stërgjyshë = g.g. mother strãmoaSã = g.g. mother (
> rarely used)
> stërnip = g.g. nephew strãnepot = g.g. nephew
> stërmundohet = to strein strãdui = to strein, to

strive

>
> Now we have some where the Rom. shows an another tratment here,

instead

> of usualy " strV-" having an "stVr-" but Albanian mentain the form

with

> "stër"
>
> stërvina = cadaver stârv= cadaver
>
> I showed this example with "stVr" because the etym. of

Rom. "stârv" is

> given as being Slavic "struvo".
> for the otheres I give here the etym. given by DEX:
>
> a strica = to foul, to become ill < lat. "extricare" =

meaning ?

> a stropi = to spurt < Slv. "kropiti" =

meaning ?

> a strãdui = to strein < Slv. "stradati" =

meaning ?

>
> The others form this examples are are compounded word where "strã"

<

> lat. "extra" and :
>
> nepot= nephew= latin nepotis, moS= unknown etymology,
>
> So if we accept the "stërvina/stârv" is a Slavic loan (struvo)

then a

> loan before the Slavic methatesis in Albanian and Romanian? The
> interesting question should be here which is the unmethathesised

form ?

> The Romanian one or the Albanian one?Or we have to deal with

something

> else? One will say that the "str-" as a consonant bloc is not

allowed by

> Albanian. This is no true since there are words in Albanian like:
>
> stregë, strehë, strelë, stremë, strok, stromë, strugë, etc.
>
> The another interesting aspect is the one of the Alb. "stVr-" and

Rom.

> "strV-" where "V" is /a/. Not /ã/, /â/, or /ë/
>
> strajcë= bag, purse straiTã= bag, purse,

unknown etym

> , see Alb.
> ? strai =cloth, unknown etym.
>
> Well, it seems a pretty interesting field which is not to clear

trough

> "Latin extra".

Alex
************
About Latin origin of prefix "stër-" I have no doubt that it's false
one, because cluster st- in Latin loans and in inherited words, was
almost always reflected by sht-: stratum > shtrat 'bed', status >
shtat 'body', stabulum > shtallë 'stable', hospitium >(ho)stipium >
shtëpi 'house'.
As far as I remember, it's also common prefix for Dalmatian language
in form stra-.
It's true that are many (pseudo-)Slavic or Latin loans that deserves
to be enlighten now with little work, because it's easy to show
their falsity.

Konushevci