----- Original Message -----
From: "Abdullah Konushevci" <a_konushevci@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: albanian prefix "stër-"
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:
> Which is the origin of the prefix "stër-" in Albanian?
> I mean here the compund prefix in words like: stërgjyshe ,
> where the prefix "stër-" play the role of the german "ur-" and in
> situations the english "great-" like in great-grand-mother
I wonder much more than anyone about the origin of one of the most
productive Albanian prefix stër-, which I find synonym of the number
four in Albanian katër- used as prefix. So, we have, except
stërgjysh 'grand-father' also katragjysh 'grand-father', that make
very doubtful Meyer's and Weigand's explanation
(According to Meyer and Weigand this prefix is derived from Lat.
extra or It. stra-. To this source they send also Romanian strâ-:
I mean that its origin must be in PIE *kwetwer->kw(e)twer 'four'
with meaning to make something small. As I have explained once,
labiovelar *kw- gives in Albanian regularly /-s-/. Otherwise, if we
see katër `four' we may notice that second part -twer developed in -
tër. It can be easy explained, if we get, besides PIE *kwetwer also
an synonymic one *kwotwor with treating the diphthong /uo/ > /a/ as
is treated diphthong /au/ > /a/. PIE *a and *o (I mean short vowels)
both derives in Albanian /a/
I guess the people with the eyes on Latin language, these builders of a
lot of fantasist hypothesis here, unfortunately trough their authority
and views, they obstructed for long time a better research onto this
Let us see the "stër-" in Albanian which has its counterpart in Romanian
In Rom. too, this prefix is very productive but I guess it ought to see
it a bit deeper not just in the words where this plays the role of
prefix. I can list some of them:
Alb <--> Rom
stërkeqet = to foul, to become ill a strica = to foul, to become
stërpik = to spurt a stropi = to spurt
stërgjysh = g.g. father strãmoS = gg.father
stërgjyshë = g.g. mother strãmoaSã = g.g. mother (
stërnip = g.g. nephew strãnepot = g.g. nephew
stërmundohet = to strein strãdui = to strein, to strive
Now we have some where the Rom. shows an another tratment here, instead
of usualy " strV-" having an "stVr-" but Albanian mentain the form with
stërvina = cadaver stârv= cadaver
I showed this example with "stVr" because the etym. of Rom. "stârv" is
given as being Slavic "struvo".
for the otheres I give here the etym. given by DEX:
a strica = to foul, to become ill < lat. "extricare" = meaning ?
a stropi = to spurt < Slv. "kropiti" = meaning ?
a strãdui = to strein < Slv. "stradati" = meaning ?
The others form this examples are are compounded word where "strã" <
lat. "extra" and :
nepot= nephew= latin nepotis, moS= unknown etymology,
So if we accept the "stërvina/stârv" is a Slavic loan (struvo) then a
loan before the Slavic methatesis in Albanian and Romanian? The
interesting question should be here which is the unmethathesised form ?
The Romanian one or the Albanian one?Or we have to deal with something
else? One will say that the "str-" as a consonant bloc is not allowed by
Albanian. This is no true since there are words in Albanian like:
stregë, strehë, strelë, stremë, strok, stromë, strugë, etc.
The another interesting aspect is the one of the Alb. "stVr-" and Rom.
"strV-" where "V" is /a/. Not /ã/, /â/, or /ë/
strajcë= bag, purse straiTã= bag, purse, unknown etym
, see Alb.
? strai =cloth, unknown etym.
Well, it seems a pretty interesting field which is not to clear trough