[tied] Re: dracones

In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <altamix@...> wrote:

>>> The Rom. Word for dragon is "balaur" which is to corelate with
>>> the albanian word "bollë"
>>
>> ... and with Serbo-Croatian "blavor". The form which might
>> suggest Albanian link is not "balaur" but the regional "balã".
>
> That suggest in the south Slavic languages are enough words
> from the former inhabitans.

That's only one of the possibilities.

>>> None of these 4 words is becoming "devil".
>>
>> Do you know why the prince Vlad, son of Mircea, was nicknamed
>> "Dracul"? For the simple reason he received from Sigismund de
>> Luxembourg the Order of Dragon, and the actual representation
>> of this fabulous animal on his chest was considered by most
>> Wallachians as being a representation of a Devil.
>> But well, these are historical details, isn't it?!
>
>
> No. It is more proazic as you think it is. In romanian every
> thing which is unknown is a "drac":-)

No, is "drãcie" or "drãcovenie" (that is `devil's thing`).

> "Ce dracu e asta?"

That expression doesn't mean the unknown object is seen as a
"drac" (`devil`), it's just quoting some name or expression.
When you say "ce mama dracu(lui) e asta?" you don't say eihter
that the object should be `devil's mother`. The pattern is too
common to be falsely interpreted as you do: "Ce {some (dirty)
expression} e asta?" which translates obviously "What {$slang}
is this?" doesn't imply that one identifies that {$slang} with
some object.

> In so far, the amulet with the dragon which is/was unknown to
> Romanians was simply "drac".

Yes, but not because of your false folk etimology.

> Vlad kept it trying but this is just a story. If you need
> historical data, take a look please at the two big Families.
> The one of Danesti and the one of Draculesti. The name
> "dracul" in connection with the father of Vlad TepeS (
> Dracula) seems to be elder as this episode with Sigismund of
> Luxembourg

If it is about "historical data" it's by no means me who should
take a look in a book. It's really embarassing to provide large
amounts of false information as you do. The nickname "Drãcule$ti"
for a branch of Basarab family is due of course to the fact that
Mircea's son, the first "contender" from that branch, was
nicknamed "Dracul". And your "it seems" is just wishful thinking.

> You are too in hury. I asked I got an answer, even if partly.
> I did not builded any fantasy.

Yes, you did.

> here must be an explanation why from both " serpent" and
> "draconis" one became the name of the evil.

You said in the previous message you don't need explanations.

> And that should be two posibilities:
> 1) the church used this word "dracones" as evil

Not only the church. Association of a big reptile shaped fire-
spitting monster with the devil is quite natural in Europe.

> 2) since someone should not build fantasies prior making a
> check, I let someone else to think about:)))

Well, fair enough: you know better your limits.

Marius Iacomi