Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:36:11 +0000, "Glen Gordon"
<glengordon01@...> wrote:

>Brian:
>>How? That's a serious question. I can easily manage ['l?@n],
>>with an alveolar flap, or ['l?n.], with nasal release of the
>>[d] making it sound very much like the alveolar flap, but I
>>don't see how you get true flapping without at least a bit of
>>a vowel in the second syllable.
>
>Actually, you're right. An error on my part. I use [d]. At any
>rate, obviously my accent doesn't have the "glottal" rule that
>Miguel speaks of. I similarly use [d] in "spitting" [spIdn.]. Never
>ever do I say [spi?n.] because, as I've said, medial glottal stops
>are largely foreign to my speech pattern.
>
>Further, after some consultation with friends and listening to their
>normal pronunciations of the word in a sentence, I now know that
>a) I'm not the only one pronouncing it like that and b) that the
>other pronunciation I've heard from one friend is more like [latn.]
>with an unaspirated alveolar stop, rather than a bonified glottal
>stop.

Sheesh. If you'd actually read what I wrote, you'd know that the
phenomenon you're hearing is known as "nasal plosion" (which can be
"voiced", as in AE "hidden", or unvoiced, as in AE "bitten").

The variant with glottal stop (and therefore no nasal plosion) occurs
only for speakers who have preglottalized final -t (amongst others,
speakers of RP and various North American urban dialects). The
sequence [?tn] is there simplified to [?n].

Anyway, it seems Manitoban is not so different from other NA Englishes
after all. The question is then how exactly nasal plosion in [dn]
differs from that in [tn]. I would guess [dn] is largely devoiced, as
final [-d], but I haven't seen any spectrograms. I would record it
myself and run it through SIL's sound analyzer, but I'm not a native
speaker.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...