[tied] Re: Help with ban_Banat

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:

> In my opinion it is not a Rom. word but a word
> which entered the languages trough the rulers of that time. If

this is

> an avarian word as suppodes by other scholars or a bulgarian word

( from

> the turkish roots) I don't care too much:-)
>

The term could be of avarian or iranian origin, I really don't know,
but was preserved only in Croatia (there the title of ban was used
from X. to XX. century) and only after XII. century was spread to
other Hungarian lands. It is possible, if we assume that Avars used
it, that some relicts of its use stayed in other parts of avarian
state.

> The Banat is shared in parts . For one of them the Romanians say
> "Banatul Sârbesc"= The Serbian Banate. If this expresion is

regarding to

> the region inhabitet by serbians or the region ruled by serbians,

or the

> region given to the serbians in the XIX century, I am not sure how

to

> interpret this. There is tough no connection with bulgarians. If

there

> should be one, it should have been very long time in the past.
>

The Banat of Temesvar was never administered by a Ban to my
knowledge. I do not exclude the possibiliy that "Banat" is really
connected to "ban" in meaning "land which is administered by a Ban",
but that have no connection with Serbs, who got southern part of
Banat in 1918. Before that Banat was always part of Hungary. It
would be interesting to see when it was firstly mentioned as "Banat".

>
> Rosetti see it too as a loan from hungarian. In other ways we can

say

> the word "ban"= money= short form of "banalis"?
> Ivanescu means that after the invasion of tartars, the hungarian

money

> dissapired and then begun to appear the money of the Bans from

Croatia

> and Slavonia (1270).This money should have been in use until 1365

when

> the King Vlaicu Voda made his own coins, but they were called

too "ban".

Yes, I agree with Ivanescu. "Moneta banalis" is latin form taken
from official documents of that time.
In Croatia was used terms: "banovac" or "kuna" meaning "marten",
from the earlier use of marten skins for payment. On the coins
usually was picture of marten and text "moneta bani p. Sclavonia",
or "moneta ducis p.Sclavonia", or "moneta regis p. Sclavonia".