Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

From: Glen Gordon
Message: 19128
Date: 2003-02-24

Miguel:
>You forgot to quote the sentence immediately preceding:
>
>"It is only in intervocalic position that the voiced stops are
>fully voiced [...]

It's irrelevant! The text's talking about /d/ in terms of "full
voicing" or "partial voicing", not "absence of voicing". I
wasn't even talking about "pre-voicing" (??!).


>>Can we now all agree that /d/ is normally voiced in English?
>
>Of course not. Normally voiced is not partially voiced.

"Normally voiced" or even "normally partially voiced" is still
"voiced"!!!

A voiceless /d/ is one where the voice does not occur during the
entire time it takes to implement the phoneme. In English, voice
DOES occur **DURING** the articulation of the phoneme. Even if it
occurs "halfway" or "right before the release", the voicing
_STILL_ occurs while /d/ is being articulated. Therefore, /d/ is
still voiced by any rational person's definition. Whether the
voicing is "weak" or "late" or "partial" is completely irrelevant.
It is voiced, and that is my point.


- gLeN


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