Re: [tied] Laryngeal theory as an unnatural

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:21:51 -0600, "Patrick C. Ryan"
<proto-language@...> wrote:

>[PCR2]
>While I respect your imaginative work in other areas, it seems to me that 'voice', if it is to have any value as a defining term at all, must be used in a consistent way when applied to any language.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I define "voice" as vibration of the
vocal chords. English /d/, in initial or final position, and for many
speakers even between voiced sounds, has no vocal chord vibration, so
it is not voiced.

>I think your reference to Mandarin is probably a 'typo'. The system of stop contrasts in Mandarin is unaspirated vs. aspirated, both voiceless.

The typo is called Hanyu Pinyin.

>> >At the moment of closure, it is (I think) physically impossible for voicing to be present -- before or after but not during. Therefore, I question the so-called "voiced" French /d/.
>>
>> It requires some extra effort, but it's certainly not impossible (my
>> Spanish and Dutch /d/'s are voiced). See the spectrogram on p. 51 of
>> TSOTWL.
>
>[PCR2]
>Sorry, I still think it is a virtual impossibility.

It's not a matter of opinion. Acoustic phonetics is a branch of
applied phyisics.

>If that is not so in this instance, would you kindly explain to me how passive relaxation of the cheeks has anything to do with the auditorily perceived buzz we call voicing?

It has to do with pressure. During the occlusion of a stop, the air
is blocked and cannot pass through the oral cavity. To prevent the
pressure from building up and stopping the vibration of the vocal
chords, extra space must be made behind the closure. Relaxation of
the cheeks does the trick, at least for labial and coronal stops (this
explains why /b/ and /d/ are more stable than /g/). Other tactics may
include, as I said, moving the tongue forwards, lowering the cheek,
lowering the larynx. The most effective strategy would be opening up
the nasal cavity, but that has the side effect of turning /d/ into /n/
(an effortlessly voiced sound even in English).

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...