Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:10:19 +0000, "Wordingham, Richard"
> <richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
>
>> It took quite a while to sort out the ordering of the rules, and I'm
>> still not happy that I get $epte, not $apte, from septem 'seven'
>
> The s->$/_!iV rule comes before the iea > ia and ea > e..e# rules, and
> you need a special rule (also before ea > e..e#) that e after palatal
> sound is not pronounced (ceapã = /c^ap&/, sãgeatã = /s&dZat&/, $eapte
> = /$apte/). So sEpte > siepte > sieapte > $eapte > $apte
Excuse me Miguel, where should the "e" after palatal not be pronounced?
In PRB or where?
Actually the sound is an "e" in the diphthong "ea". And in which dialect
should be "sãdzatã" for "sãgeatã"? I am not aware of it but you got me
curious. Or maybe /dz/ here is just the way to write for affricated /g/
like in "joke"?
Normally the /e/ how you said in the previous rules, diphtongued to
"ie". The "i" from /ie/ became a part of the consonant before it , so
/t/+/i/=/ts/, /s/+/i/= S and there should have remained the /e/ in the
word , it was not elided or "mute".
Now it seems that this "e" which remained "free" from /ie/ diphtongued
once again to "ea" and monophtongued once again to "a".
So the chain transformations for vocalism of Latin "septem" are
/e/>/ie/>/e/>/ea/>/a/ for giving Rom. "Sapte".
Theoretically very probable. The question is which was the need for
making it?
The answer: there was no need. The actual form in Rom. Lang. should be
explained just trough Latin. Therefore it _must have been_ this chain of
transformations.
Interesting should be in the actual language that from an /a/ you can
get an /e/ when deriving: Sapte but înSepti= to make it seven times
more. But how you showed these rules should work and there should be
more examples for /e/ which became an /a/ after s,d,t,k,g having now the
form /Sa/, /Za/, /Tsa/, /tSa/,/Ga/. We can try to find some with this
form at the begin of the word.
-------------
With /Sa/
-------------
saddle = Sa < sella
seven = Sapte < septem
snake = Sarpe < serpens, serpentis ( see Note 1)
six = Sase < sex
Counterexamples: (see please Note 1)
to sit = a Sedea < sedere
slave = Serb < servus
plain = Ses < sessum
__________________________________
Note 1
Sarpe= there is too the forms with "Serpe" and all derivatives are with
"e" like:
Serpoaica, SerpiSor, Serpui, Serpoi, Serpuitor
Sedea= in conjugation there is too the form with "a":
eu Sed (Sãd), tu Sezi(Sãzi), el Shede ( el Sade), noi Sedem, voi Sedeti,
ei Sed ( ei Sãd)
__________________________________
-----------
With /Za/
-----------
larch tree = zardã < daeda (=taeda)
Counterexamples ( see please Note 2)
sauce = zeamã < zema ( is here short e?)
ten = zetSe < decem
dowry = zestre < dexteram
__________________________________
Note 2:
zeama= derivates are with "e". zemos, zemui
__________________________________
-----------
With /Tsa)
-----------
country = tsarã < terra
Counter example (see please Note 3)
to weave = tsese < texere
texture = tsesãturã < textura
___________________________________
Note 3
texture= tsesãturã is not given as inherited from latin . DEx gives it
as a properly Romanian construction from the verb "tsese" and suffix
"-tura". Myself, I am not very clarified about the "-tura" & "-toare"
Suffix "-tura" is from suffix "-tor" (?) but it doesn't matches
perfectly since the feminine form for "-tor" is "toare" cf.
sunator/sunatoare, tsipator/tsipatoare. The suffix "tura" is to find in
words like muratura,acritura, etc.
___________________________________
----------
With /Ga/
----------
I ask myself what we can get here. I cannot see now the construction
since /e/>/ie/ and if /g/+/i/ became a /gi/ like in /joke/, then the
words where the remaining /e/ is still present should be words with the
group /g^e/ or, for counter examples, the group /g^e/. If I am not wrong
with this assertion , I try to find some ( ^= the "i" which became part
of affricated /g/)
to moan = geme < gemere
knee = genunchi < geniculus
frost = ger < gelu
Counter examples
twin = geamãn < geminus
moan = geamãt < gemitus
eyelash = geanã < *genna(= gena=check, face)
Alex