Re: [tied] Fw: Sorok i devianosto

--- Sergejus Tarasovas <S.Tarasovas@...> wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: george knysh [mailto:gknysh@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:07 PM
> > To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [tied] Fw: Sorok i devianosto
> >
> > GK: This is worth discussing further. Maybe
> Piotr
> > can come up with additional information on Friday.
> I
> > take it that *sork is otherwise unattested.
>
> Except my memory, the only decent source I've got to
> hand is Vasmer, who
> gives:
>
> Russ. dial. _soroc^i'ca_, Ukr., Bel. _soro'c^ka_,
> ORuss _soroc^Ika_
> 'shirt', OCS _srac^ica_ 'kHito:'n', (Russ)CS
> _sraka_, _sraky_ (G.
> srakUve) 'id.', Slovenian _sra'c^ica_ 'id.'.
>
> Enough evidence for Proto-Slavic *sork- (*sork-a/-y,
> *sorc^-ica,
> *sorc^-Ika) 'shirt'.

*****GK: Is the term known in South Slavic (esp.
Bulg.)recensions of CS? BTW ,as an aside, does "sraka"
(today) mean the same in Russian as it does in
Ukrainian?[viz., "ass", not the animal] (:=))*****

Zero evidence for the meaning

> 'sack'. But doesn't a
> primitive (sleeveless) shirt/dress look like a sack
> with a hole for the
> head, after all? ;-)

****GK: I thought of that too. But all this depends on
the existence of *sork doesn't it?*****

>
> > Is there
> > in fact any evidence that soroc#IkU was used as
> simply
> > "sack"?
>
> If I recall correctly, thus in Zaliznyak's
> dictionary of the birch bark
> letters' language (or was it 'a sack of 40 skins'?),
> the meaning being
> determined by the context (I'll re-check in some
> hours).

*****GK: As mentioned, this is important. Because if
the only meaning is "a sack of 40 skins" then the
Slavic etymology is problematic.******

>
> > I don't have enough
> > resources at hand to check if it has survived in
> this
> > sense to our days in any Slavic language.
>
> I don't have any decent relevant lexicographical
> sources to hand either.
> Anybody?
>
> > Soroc#ica
> > 'shirt' (known from Novgorodian birch bark
> letters)
> > could be a borrowing from the Danish term
> mentioned by
> > Torsten.
>
> Considering the Old Church Slavomic and Slovenian
> evidence, one should
> posit a loan from (Proto-)Germanic into Proto-Slavic
> to explain *sork-
> as a borrowing.

*****GK: I'm not too sure about that. Anything else
besides the Slovenian?*****

By the way, is anyone aware of the

> etymology of the
> appropriate Germanic words?
>
> Sergei
>
>

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