Re: [tied] Primordial Man, Ymir, *Yemos, PIE cosmogony

----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Primordial Man, Ymir, *Yemos, PIE cosmogony


>
> Joao:
> >I agree with David. It is valid to Norse Ymir, but also to Indian
Purus.a,
>
> The issue I have here is that Ymir and Yama spring from the name *Yemos.
> Now, granted, the functions of *Yemos and those of Ymir and Yama could
> have evolved over the years but where is there any trace of a cosmic
> motif behind Yama? At best, he might be seen as chthonic... but is he
> truely "cosmic" (ie: the _entire_ universe)?
>
> How can you relate Purusa with *Yemos? How do we know if Purusa has
> anything to do with *Yemos or not? Maybe Purusa is a totally seperate
> entity, introduced from elsewhere.

Purus.a, or Prajapati is very similar to Ymir.

> >1. Primordial Man *Yemos, hermaphrodit, giant, sacrified to originate the
> >world.
>
> Okay, Ymir is a hermaphrodite, but is Yama? Was *Yemos truely sexless?
> Granted he was sacrificed, and being the "earth" he would have to be
> large. He wouldn't need to be the _entire_ universe from what I see.
>
>
> >2. The First Man *Manus, progenitor of manking, ruler of dead, king of
> >Underworld, born from Earth (homo/humus).
>
> No, I don't see an underworld link with First Man at all. The opposite!
> The underworld link is clearly seen in *Yemos since Yama is the god
> of the dead! What evidence for *Manus having such a motif?
>

Well, the first man to die became the ruler of the dead in Underworld, cf.
Yama, Yima, and traces of Minos (that I think like Phrygian Manes, to be
cognate of *Manus, but not through Greek), and the Roman manes, ghosts (see
Dumezil).


> >3. The Earth Mother *DHeg^Hom
>
> Are you sure the earth is female in Indo-European mythology? Granted we
> do find Gea but the Greek mythologies were affected by native preIE
> Balkan beliefs as well as beliefs imported from across the Mediterranean.
>

I agree the Gaia was affected by Pre-Greek beliefs (Ge: akin to Sumerian Ki
?, or ge:/de: <*Dga: < *dHg^Hom ?), and I'm not sure about Earth be a god or
goddess or two. There is a plethora of possibilities. Earth Goddes may have
a kind of "brother" or "husband": Tellus/Tellumus, Zemes Paitis/Zemes
Maitis, Fjörgynn/Fjörgyn, Demeter/Poseidaon. Another idea I think yesterday:
What if the Hermaphrodit *Yemos was divided into two: *Manus the Man and
*DHeg^Hom the Earth Mother?

> >4. The Primordial Bovine, (hermaphrodit bovine? bull? cow? a couple? a
> >cow and a calf?) From Cow's udder came the Primordial Rivers (Audhumla
> >and Aditi).
>
> Yes, I think I'll call her *GWou-Xanax for lack of a better name.
>
>
> >We might add the World Tree to this scenario.
>
> I want to call it the "Egg Tree". Yggdrasil would be one descendant of
> this concept.
>
>
> - gLeN
>
>
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