From: João Simões Lopes Filho
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Medieval Dragons, dog/snake, Greek Dragons
> Joao says strange things:
> >Chinese dragons could be crocodiles.
> Oh God, I don't even know why I'm acknowledging this statement
> but here we go.
> It's irrational to insist that mythological constructs are
> based on actual animals. Egyptian Seth, for example, is clearly
> a composite creature invented purely out of the imagination of
> the Egyptians who conceived it. The Chinese dragon is not
> a crocodile for the obvious reason that it doesn't even look
> anything like a crocodile nor do they fly in the sky. Even
> if we COULD associate the dragon with some actual animal,
> the specific function it plays in myth is still based on
> abstract _symbolism_, not on actual reality!
> On the other hand, John states:
> >Regarding dragons there is also the dragon as guardian. Legged serpents
> >appear on the walls of Babylon, [...]
> >Legged serpents also appear in Egyptian iconography.[...]
> >Local "priestesses" had the responsibility of catching the snakes to
> >grain to be retrieved. Cretian statues show
> >Goddesses with serpents wound around their arms and European
> >myths are full of stories of dragons [...]
> WHAT IS YOUR POINT, JOHN?? We get the hint already! There are
> lots of dragon and serpent stories in world myths. So what?!
> Unless we deal with one story at a time and deal exclusively
> with actual "dragons", not just serpents, we'll get nowhere
> when it comes to answering the original question of the origin
> of the dragon concept. As I've said, I've linked it to "rain",
> which doesn't mean that every story ever mentioned in history
> with a reptile in it must relate to rain. We're getting losing
> focus here.
> >The association of woman, tree of life and serpent is thus a
> >very old one.
> That much I agree with, although we're far off focus from the
> original topic now. The reason for this particular link has
> nothing to do with dragon symbolism.
> The serpent here in _this_ instance only symbolizes water, water
> on the ground, particularly the never-ending seas from which the
> world was born. The tree of life is merely an abstract
> representation of the standing Goddess, the Creatrix with
> upraised arms holding up the skies. Just like Eve, her feet are
> bitten by the serpent -- which is another way of saying that she
> stands with her arms to the sky with her feet "bitten" below by
> the "waves of the sea" (serpent) below. Now you know the ancient
> pagan symbolism underlying the bible that everybody thinks is
> so hip nowdays.
> Because she holds up the sky, her arms appear like branches
> on a tree. So instead of the Goddess, other more abstractified
> "central objects" replaced her to hold up the sky -- objects
> such as a tree, mountain, pin, hammer, horns & double-axe,
> column, etc, etc, etc. Hell, even a giant penis would do here.
> This is all about abstract symbolism and each myth or motif has
> to be dealt with individually.
> >Eve's name in Arabic still links life *heyyat with the serpent
> That's interesting. I'm looking that up. Perhaps that would
> explain any secondary associations between the serpent,
> originally signifying only the waters, and the Goddess,
> symbolizing ALL of creation (waters, skies, land and everything
> >In Hebrew she was HWH, Chawah, known to us as Eve.
> Of course, we should all know by now that Eve is the Goddess
> and the nasty serpent bite should underline that fact.
> >Yah joined with HWH to make the sacred name "the Holy of Holies"
> I'm gonna think about that! :)
> - gLeN
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