Re: [tied] Re: Medieval Dragons, dog/snake, Greek Dragons

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 17591
Date: 2003-01-14

But if a people migrate from areas with certain animals to new areas where
these animals are not exist, these "forgotten" animal may be turned into
mythological creatures gradually. There are people Chinese people that are
originated from Indochina, where crocs are usual, and the Chinese
calendarium seem to be borrowed from Austro-Thai people.
Obviously I'm not saying that this must be the only explanation for dragons.

Joao SL
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Medieval Dragons, dog/snake, Greek Dragons

> Joao says strange things:
> >Chinese dragons could be crocodiles.
> Oh God, I don't even know why I'm acknowledging this statement
> but here we go.
> It's irrational to insist that mythological constructs are
> based on actual animals. Egyptian Seth, for example, is clearly
> a composite creature invented purely out of the imagination of
> the Egyptians who conceived it. The Chinese dragon is not
> a crocodile for the obvious reason that it doesn't even look
> anything like a crocodile nor do they fly in the sky. Even
> if we COULD associate the dragon with some actual animal,
> the specific function it plays in myth is still based on
> abstract _symbolism_, not on actual reality!
> On the other hand, John states:
> >Regarding dragons there is also the dragon as guardian. Legged serpents
> >appear on the walls of Babylon, [...]
> >Legged serpents also appear in Egyptian iconography.[...]
> >Local "priestesses" had the responsibility of catching the snakes to
> >grain to be retrieved. Cretian statues show
> >Goddesses with serpents wound around their arms and European
> >myths are full of stories of dragons [...]
> >[yadayadayada...]
> WHAT IS YOUR POINT, JOHN?? We get the hint already! There are
> lots of dragon and serpent stories in world myths. So what?!
> Unless we deal with one story at a time and deal exclusively
> with actual "dragons", not just serpents, we'll get nowhere
> when it comes to answering the original question of the origin
> of the dragon concept. As I've said, I've linked it to "rain",
> which doesn't mean that every story ever mentioned in history
> with a reptile in it must relate to rain. We're getting losing
> focus here.
> >The association of woman, tree of life and serpent is thus a
> >very old one.
> That much I agree with, although we're far off focus from the
> original topic now. The reason for this particular link has
> nothing to do with dragon symbolism.
> The serpent here in _this_ instance only symbolizes water, water
> on the ground, particularly the never-ending seas from which the
> world was born. The tree of life is merely an abstract
> representation of the standing Goddess, the Creatrix with
> upraised arms holding up the skies. Just like Eve, her feet are
> bitten by the serpent -- which is another way of saying that she
> stands with her arms to the sky with her feet "bitten" below by
> the "waves of the sea" (serpent) below. Now you know the ancient
> pagan symbolism underlying the bible that everybody thinks is
> so hip nowdays.
> Because she holds up the sky, her arms appear like branches
> on a tree. So instead of the Goddess, other more abstractified
> "central objects" replaced her to hold up the sky -- objects
> such as a tree, mountain, pin, hammer, horns & double-axe,
> column, etc, etc, etc. Hell, even a giant penis would do here.
> This is all about abstract symbolism and each myth or motif has
> to be dealt with individually.
> >Eve's name in Arabic still links life *heyyat with the serpent
> >*hayyat.
> That's interesting. I'm looking that up. Perhaps that would
> explain any secondary associations between the serpent,
> originally signifying only the waters, and the Goddess,
> symbolizing ALL of creation (waters, skies, land and everything
> else).
> >In Hebrew she was HWH, Chawah, known to us as Eve.
> Of course, we should all know by now that Eve is the Goddess
> and the nasty serpent bite should underline that fact.
> >Yah joined with HWH to make the sacred name "the Holy of Holies"
> >YHWH.
> I'm gonna think about that! :)
> - gLeN
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get VirusScan Online
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to