[tied] Re: Laryngeal Loss (was Does Koenraad Elst Meet Hock´s Chal

For /ptklli/ the trick is to
remember the silent vowels! I jest
not - one of them bears the main
stress. Do the heavy initial
clusters of Polish include
(predictable) silent vowels? The
notion is inspired by some remarks
in Piotr's paper on presigmatised
plosives. - Richard.
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,
"tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>"
<tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> > > In a message dated 1/3/03

4:53:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > > tgpedersen@... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Not necessarily. Loss of

laryngeals is a completely natural

> process
> > > > > which can happen, or not,

with or without any external

> motivation,
> > > > and
> > > > > at any time.
> > >
> > > I read so many times things

like "this combination of sounds

> changes
> > > because it is hard to say,"

without any explanation as to how

> such a
> > > combination would arise in the

first place. I can understand it

> when it
> > > comes with compound words, or

with two words pronounced

> consecutively, but
> > > how about otherwise?
> > >
> > > David Fickett-Wilbar
> >
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,

Piotr Gasiorowski

> <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
> > Most typically, vowel reduction

and loss creates difficult

> consonant clusters: trisyllabic

CVCRVCV > C&CRVC& > monosyllabic

> CCRVC, etc. One striking example

is Polish, which developed from

> Proto-Slavic, an open-syllable

language with simple onsets, but now

> admits some really monstrous

clusters. Most other modern Slavic

> languages are of the same

phonotactic type.

> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
> Especially sports reporters in

Denmark have decided that certain

> Polish and otherwise consonant

groups are very difficult to
pronounce

> and have decided that they can't

really be serious and simplify those

> clusters in the proper way. But

not to worry: Mstislav and
mgnovjenie

> are no harder to pronounce than

English /ptklli/.

>
> Torsten