Re: IE and their dogs : long-haired sheepdogs

--- In cybalist@..., Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:35:46 +0000, Richard Wordingham
> <richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
>
> >I'm now getting confused by what Miguel's reconstruction (n.s.
> >*sah2wal, g.s. *sh2[wé|ú][l|n]s) actually means. Is it merely the
> >consonant stem form, co-existing with other formations?
>
> Consonant stems are regressive, so generally, if we find a word

which

> is a consonant stem in only a few languages, but has been extended

or

> thematized in different ways in most others, it's assumed that it

was

> originally a consonant stem. Even in the extreme case where the

pure

> consonant stem has not survived anywhere.

Miguel wrote:
'I explain the l/n heteroclisis from earlier (certainly not
recent!) **-ln-: in the Auslaut *-ln > *-lr, and then probably *-ll >
*-l, while in the Inlaut *-ln- is still present in Slavic slUnIce <
*suln-iko-), but was mostly assimilated to -ll- (Greek <he:lios>,
not *<he(:)ilos>) > -l- (which can of course also be analogical
after the NA) or -nn- (Germanic *sunn-o:n) > -n- (as in the Avestan
genitive).'

Are you saying that the post zero-grade consonant stem forms included
inflected forms that retained -ln-? If not, when could *sulniko have
arisen?

> >The suggestion of pre-Germanic -ln- > -nn- bothers me slightly; I
> >though we had PIE *kl.ni- 'hill' > Germanic *hulli- (OE hyll, at

any

> >rate) 'do.', Latin collis 'do.'.
>
> What I said only applies if the *-ln- cluster was pre zero-grade.

The

> "hill" words are from **qVlH-Vn- or **qVlH-mVn- with some material
> originally between the *l and the *n.

Are you suggesting that *-ln- from before zero grading was different
from *-ln- arising as a result of it? Or are you suggesting that we
are seeing dialect differences that predate zero grading?

Richard.