--- In cybalist@..., guto rhys <gutorhys@...> wrote:
> I doubt very much that the Saxonisation of 'Britain' was peaceful.
> As I'm sure you know the Anglo-Saxon chronicles make numerous
references to slaughter as do early Welsh sources.
Later consolidation and the spread of Anglo-Saxon (then Danish, then
Norman, than Anglo-Norman) rule was certainly by the sword. Remember
the bloody conquest of the Jutish kingdom of Wight by Caedwalla of
Wessex.
Didn't the Welsh ever slaughter one another?
> Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:For an
interesting discussion of Saxon presence in Romano-Celtic Britain
before the fifth century, see:
>
> http://www.english.uga.edu/~mathelie/mathii2.html
> http://www.english.uga.edu/~mathelie/mathii3.html
There's also an interesting essay at
http://members.aol.com/bakken1/angsax/asinv.htm , with a bit more on
the West Saxon kings with Welsh names.
> This doesn't change the fact that the English _language_ was
introduced by immigrants from the continent, whatever the historical
circumstances. Even if the traditional conquest scenario is
superseded by one according to which massive peaceful acculturation
of native Britons was the chief mechanism the "Anglo-Saxonisation" of
the country, nobody to my knowledge claims that Britain is the
Germanic homeland :))
I was referring to a pre-Roman presence, but I can't find anyone
asserting it on the web. I don't recall much solid evidence being
offered. I think the strongest evidence offered was the suggestion
that 'Bernicia' continues the name of the Brigantes, and that
wouldn't prove much even if true. I think glottochronology (for all
its shortcomings - split c. 800AD if my memory serves me right) would
back the importance of post-Roman continental links even if there
were a pre-Roman Germanic population in England. An early split is
tempting, though - I get the distinct impression that Old English is
far more Frisian than Old Saxon. (Do we have usable remains of
continental Anglian and Jutish?)
I'm not rising to the challenge to claim Britain as the Germanic
homeland.
Richard.