Re: [tied] Goths and OCS

I have no comments about your list (all well-known examples, sometimes slightly misquoted), except that there's no need to attribute Latin origin to Germanic *awo: 'grandmother' and *widuwo: 'widow' -- both respectable PIE words with plenty of cognates. All that these borrowings prove is that the Germani (and the Goths in particular) were within borrowing distance of the Roman world, which nobody doubts anyway. Why this should have been in Dacia, of all places (are there scorpions in Romania? aren't there prisons outside Romania? :)), is beyond my understanding, especially as some of the loans have a pan-Germanic distribution and their form suggests very early borrowing (not later than ca. AD 200). Dragane$ti's reasoning seems to be underlain by wishful thinking.

Piotr

----- Original Message -----
From: alexmoeller@...

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 3:47 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Goths and OCS
[Moeller] these could get later in Northwest germanic frough the francs & langobards. Dont you mind?And because you speak on object let me tell you the gothic words in discution: aket= vinegar anakumbiam= to sit at a table arka= chest asilus= ass arkeis= jug, cup awo= grandmother karkara= prison katils= kettle kaupon= to trade lein= linen lukarn= candle mes= table paurpura= purple garment sakkus= sack cloth sigliam= to seal skaurpio= scorpion wein= wine widuwo= widow disdailan = to divide disbniupan= to tear in two distahian= to distroy distairan= to tear in pieces diswiss= dissolution [Here only the prefix is Latin; the roots are Germanic. -- Piotr] laisareis= teacher motareis= toll-taker sokareis= disputer wullareis= fuller Composed words: lukarna statha= candel stick weina-gards= vineyard weina-triu= wine tree Transaltion or calques: aina-baur= first-born arma-hairtei= mercy ( lat. misericordia) gud-hus= temple mana-seth= mankind us-kuths= well-known Draganesti quote as fallow: "The words belonging to the last three categories are exceptionaly signifiant , borrowings of this kind of lexical combination being only the consequence of relationship of close co-habitation of broad masses of population speaking two diferent languages". He minds, just in Dacia coudl happen that thing.