Re: [tied] Goths and OCS

----- Original Message -----

From: alexmoeller@...

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:49 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Goths and OCS

> The whole point is that the bible of Ulfila is translated in the normal way of speak of the goths , meaning they have had already the corupted latin words in their language at the time the bible was translated. And this latin words could be brrowed ( in a such corrupted form and ath that time?) just from the romanians.

 

This is unlikely. We have the same words (or at least most of them) in Northwest Germanic (English, German, Dutch, the Scandinavian languages) as well, and the form of some of them implies _very_ early borrowing (*kaisar- is a classic example, with its diphthongal *ai and velar *k; it must have been taken straight from _early_ Imperial Latin, before the time we have a right to call Proto-Romanian, and apparently before the Goths moved as far as Ukraine, not to mention Wulfila and his Bible).

 

> About the methathesis we spoked about. I forgot at that time
to put you the fallowing question:
Why romanian balta & dalta & gard= supposed frm slavic without
methathesis but romanian târg, târn= supposed from slavic with
methathesis?
This will mean the romanians got some before methathesis and
some with methathesis supposing a periodical contact with the
slavs, after and before the slavic methatesis.This is an
explanation for albanians words too .They are too laoned(?)
from slavic words with and without methathesis
But I do not see why should not be  the slavs the people who
got the word from romanian and  they apllied e v e r y w h e r
e,  as it normaly in slavic is , this methathesis.

Quite simply, this r/l-metathesis did not operate in the earliest Slavic dialects in the Balkans (shortly after ca. AD 550), but at that time Slavic contacts with the proto-Romanians and Proto-Albanians were sporadic at best. Most of the Slavic loans in both languages were taken after AD 800, i.e. after metathesis. The shape of some of these words betrays their Slavic origin. E.g. *dolto 'chisel' comes from *dolb-to- (with a typically Slavic simplification of *-b-t- [-pt-]) and is regularly derived from the Slavic verb *dolbati (with the *b preserved before a vowel) and *dels^ti < *delb-ti 'to chisel, to make holes' (PIE *dHelbH-, cf. Eng. delve), i.e. it belongs to a familiar derivational paradigm in Slavic and has a clear etymology there, whereas it's lexically isolated in Romanian and Albanian.

 

Piotr