Re: Pliny's "Guthalus- "Richard Wordingham"

"Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...> Fri Oct 4, 2002  6:13 pm
wrote:

<<The locals don't really need a name for their river; it is very much just
'the river'. (For example, I don't think I have ever _heard_ the name of the
river that runs through the town I live in!) However traders,... would need a
name, and may therefore be the effective namers.>>

On the other hand, traders who "need a name" are probably not native or local
traders -- otherwise why would they need anything but the local name? Thus
you might conclude from this that the names given are by outsiders or
foreigners -- and therefore might be foreign names. And of course traders
come from different places with different languages and they may not agreed
on the same name. Both of these possibilities might suggest that
standardizing a name was a product of writing.

However traders, and any others who use various waterways, would need a
name,...What relatively static locals call the river is largely irrelevant.

Aside from traders, soldiers or missionaries, who else would need to
distinguish between rivers by giving them different names? River fishermen
would be as local as local farmers. Although transhumant herders might find
themselves coping with more than one river. In any case, your point of view
again might suggest that the river would not be named in the language or
dialect of the natives who actually live on the river.


<<One may even need a name to discuss fords.>>

It's an interesting idea that a prominent ford might give its name to a whole
river among land travelers.

<<Trading goes back a very long way - Mesolithic at least!>>

There's quite a bit of evidence for long-range trading in the early
Neolithic? Eg, obsidian and flint.

<<The one exception to the pronciple of naming that I can think of is
an overwhelmingly dominant river. For that, a phrase such as 'the
main river' might suffice. After all, in English we don't really
have a single name for our planet! (Is it Earth? Is it Terra?)>>

Try the really big bodies of water. How were the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian,
Artic Oceans named? More importantly, how were those names spread and
preserved? Historical naming suggests a very difference scenario then the
"true native name" idea assumed for preliterate European rivers

Steve Long