Re: [tied] *h3 (More deja-vu)

The list of tenuis + H3 showing up as media is way past twenty now. News
will be coming out of Copenhagen in due course. I can say no more without
being indiscrete about the work of others. But it is true that not more
than two examples have been accorded serious international discussion,
viz. píbati and Hamp's Celtic *abon- 'river' as derived from the stem of
Sanskrit a(:)p- 'water' with the "Hoffmann suffix" *-HVn- whose laryngeal
he therefore assumes to be *H3. The 'river' example was published in 1972.
In the Pedersen memorial volume of 1994 Birgit Olsen gave quite a list of
examples of serivatives in -don- and -gon- from stems ending in -t- and
-k-, respectively, but since most of the t's are such that alternate with
-s-, and the k's are from laryngeal hardening Martinet style they have
found no echo, positive or negative. A new instalment is on its way.

Jens

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Glen Gordon wrote:

>
> Peter to Jens concerning a voiced *h3:
> >Oh, come, come! It may have been voiced, but there is no consensus of
> >agreement as yet. We do not help our studies if we claim to "know" things
> >that are not yet known, however much we want them to be true.
>
> Oh thank god I'm not alone! :P
>
> Even though *pi-ph3- seems to be the only remotely credible example that
> might possibly show voicing of *h3, I got to thinkin' some more about how
> to nail this coffin on tight.
>
> I've already explained the fact that claiming *h3 to have been rounded
> and voiced makes for a very unbalanced system of phonemes and I think we
> have enough of an imbalance already without **b, thank you very much
> without having to wonder why there is no rounded but _unvoiced_ phoneme
> to accompany *h3.
>
> And how can we be sure that the "voicing" really occured in IE itself
> or whether the voicing happened later in an example like *pi-ph3-? For
> example, let's say that I'm right for a moment. Let's say that *h3 equals
> *[hW]. One then takes *pi-ph3- to have been pronounced as */piphW-/. Of
> course, we see in this example that *hW wouldn't have been very audible at
> all. It's just ripe for erosion. It would be very easy for different post-IE
> languages to independantly turn this puppy 'round and make it *pipw-,
> let's say. With assimilatory voicing of *w we obtain *pib(w)- and voila!
> There you have it. No voicing of *h3 required and that explains /pibanti/
> and /bibunt/ nicely.
>
>
> - gLeN
>
>
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