Re: [tied] More Pliny's "Guthalvs"

From: Tore Gannholm
Message: 15877
Date: 2002-10-02

>
> >
>> Pliny is not talking about whole rivers but about
>> their emptying into the
>> "Ocean". Since I didn't get any kind of coherent
>> answer to my suggestion
>> that Pliny's list is a mariner's list,
>
>******GK: I suggest you read Pliny at 37,30ff of the
>NH esp. at 37,45. There you will find the story of a
>gentleman (still living when Pliny was writing) who
>was sent by one of Nero's bureaucrats to explore the
>northern portion of the Amber Road. He did so, all the
>way to the Baltic, whose shores he explored, bringing
>back much of the valuable stuff. From Pannonian
>Carnuntum (a distance of nearly 900 kilometers). So
>forget your mariner's list and your Swedish river.
>Here's a link to a map:
>http://www.ancientroute.com/Amberoad.htm
>Click on map 5. Notice what river is crossed before
>the Vistula. This may be another explanation as to why
>"Guthalus" appears before Vistula in Pliny's list. The
>name quickly disappears, to be replaced by three names
>in Ptolemy (the latest interpretation by K. Goldmann
>is that these three names refer to the three mouths of
>the old Oder), one of which eventually won out as the
>main name of the river.*****
>


Erland Hjärne has dealt with this in his doctoral thesis

http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/beowulf_/bernstensriddar/default.htm

unfortunately it is in Swedish.

There is no question that the knowledge came from the Amber road.
Plinius informtation was later used by Tacitus.

Hjärne calls this Roman merchant "Bernstensriddaren".

It is also mentioned that he visited the most important trading
places in the Baltic.

In the large trading place Bandelundaviken in Gotland are plenty of
Roman artefacts from that time found.
For those who can read Swedish the digging report is on
http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/historia_/thule/default.htm

Tore
--