Re: [tied] Re: for ignorants

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 15856
Date: 2002-10-01

I know Golab's book (though I haven't got it to hand). It represent the view, once prevailing among Polish scholars, that the Slavs lived in Poland throughout the Roman period or even originated here (at the very least, they were credited with creating the Lausitz culture). This would mean that any Germanic peoples known from ancient history merely passed through Slavic Poland on their migrations or temporarily settled among the Slavs.
 
Golab's particular theory -- of an early expansion from the Dnieper basin (ca. 700 BC, if I remember correctly) is at variance with several kinds of evidence: linguistic (for one thing, the Slavic branch is highly homogeneous, which suggests late territorial expansion of the protolanguage from a relatively small home area); historical (the writers of the Roman period report nothing that could be interpreted as Slavic presence in the Vistula and Oder basins; au contraire, the onomastic material connected with the Przeworsk culture is clearly Germanic); as well as archaeological (there is no continuity between Roman-time and later cultures, and most of Poland was dramatically depopulated at the end of the Roman period).
 
The theory currently in vogue (and one that fits the linguistic aspect of the question, in my opinion) is that the Slavs arrived in the wake of the Great Migrations, sometimes in the company of Hunnic, Sarmatian or Avar allies or overlords, sometimes on their own. In Poland they filled the vacuum created by the collapse of the Przeworsk culture, associated with East Germanic speakers (perhaps originally with some Celtic admixture). The association of Slavic-speakers with concrete archaeological cultures (to the extent that such correlations are valid, "Slavic" being ultimately a linguistic notion) is still somewhat uncertain, but I think most archaeologists would opt for a chain of related cultures between the Don and the Carpathians, genetically connected with the Kiev culture on the Middle Dnieper and, in a deeper perspective, the so-called post-Zarubinec horizon in the Pripyat' and Dnieper basins. Archaeological traces attributable to Slavic settlers in Poland come from the sixth century, but it's highly probable they were present in southeastern Poland (east of the upper Vistula) since at least the middle of the fifth century. Procopius had the Heruls pass through lands occupied by "the Sclavini" and through depopulated wildernesses on their trek from the Carpathian basin to Scandinavia in AD 512, which squares well with the scenario above.
 
Piotr
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: danjmi
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:55 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: for ignorants

         Piotr, that's a very succint statement of the expansion of the
Slavs from the fifth century.  Would you make a similar one for
the time earlier?
         I have a book "The Origin of the Slavs, A Linguist's View" by
Zbigniew Golab (with doodads across the L and under the A)
1991, which I much enjoy browsing through without being
competent to appraise.  I'm sure you're familiar with it, I've often
wondered what your opinion of it was, and this seems the
opportunity to ask.  As I understand him, he has the Proto-Slavs
emerging in the Middle Dniepr basin and expanding through
much of Poland before the birth of Christ, whereas you imply
they arrived in southeastern Poland (from the east?) some
centuries later.
Dan Milton