Re: [tied] for ignorants

--- Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
wrote:

> Well, the Avar conquests in the Carpathian basin,
> Pannonia and the Balkans began _after_ 550 and some
> form of Slavic vassalage under the Avars (punctuated
> by revolts like that which ended in the
> establishment of Samo's state) lasted until the
> ultimate collapse of the power of the western Avars,
> defeated by Charlemagne, who received significant
> help from the politically ambitious Moravians, in
> the 790's. In the seventh century the Serbs were
> invited by the Byzantines to settle permanently in
> the western Balkans -- quite a massive migration;
> the Croats also moved into their present lands about
> the same time. Until the intrusion of the Magyars
> there was no abrupt boundary between the Western
> Slavs (and in particular Proto-Czech/Slovak) and the
> Serbian/Croatian/Slovene group. They formed a
> dialectal continuum, and there was certainly some
> movement of populations to and fro. After the Magyar
> conquest of Pannonia at least some of the local
> Slavs must have been displaced, migrating in various
> directions, but I don't know anything concrete about
> that.
>
> Piotr

******GK: That sounds about right. The massive
north-south movements occurred in the 6th and 7th
centuries. There are no indications they continued
thereafter. There may have been fairly undetectable
smaller migrations to and fro. Since you're interested
in the Southern Slavs: it is possible that there was a
bit of a reflux northward from Greece after the
beginning of the Byzantine reconquista in the 8th c.
We know that the Slavs swamped Greece in the period
ca. 600-650 (Vasmer and others compute a couple of
thousand Slavic toponyms in Greece, more in the west
than in the east). I suppose many "clans" preferred to
move rather than to be enslaved or christianized as
Byzantine pressure grew. But we are singularly ill
informed about these processes. By the time of
Constantine Porphyrogenitus very little remained of
the Slavic multitudes of the 7th c. Those who had not
been sold into slavery via the marts of Thessaloniki
or Corinth became hellenized or left. Only a couple of
hillbilly tribes seemed to have remained in the
Pelopponesus.****

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alexmoeller@...
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] for ignorants
>
>
> I am specialy interested about something else. About
> "waves" of migration in south and south-est of
> europe a f t e r 550. If there are any records which
> will tell us about
> succesive waves of slavs comming in the VII-X
> centuries from?, let us say, somewhere, and settling
> in the actualy Bulgaria and Serbia, or there is not
> record at all and the salvs from south are the
> people who migrated there until the end of VI
> century and they developed well there.
>
>
>

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