Re: [tied] Re: south slavic

--- Vassil Karloukovski <v.karloukovski@...>
wrote:

> I am not aware of Slavic tribal names or Sclaviniae
> in -ICHI
> from the eastern Balkans. There were/are some in
> -CI, such
> as RUPCI, B&RSJACI, M&RVACI, etc.

*****GK: -CI will also do. BTW I'm not talking of
tribal names but of toponyms. Are there many toponyms
in -CI or -ICI?******

> >
> > ****GK: Could you develop the above? The
> information
> > about "Bulgars" in the 4th century is news to
> me.*****
>
>
> A copy of the Anonymous Latin chronograph from 354
> AD
> mentiones the Bulgars among the descendants of Shem
> - "Ziezi
> ex quo Bulgares" (Ziezi, of whom are the Bulgars).

*****GK: Where was this published? In the MGH perhaps?
One would need to verify in the apparatus the (to my
mind practically certain) probability that the mention
of Bulgars was a later gloss.*****

>

There is

> also an encounter between the Langobards and the
> Bulgars in
> the Carpathians in the early 5th c., recorded by
> Paulus
> Diaconus and Fredegarius.

*****GK: Sources of the 7th and 8th century providing
"retroactive" information. What we need are
CONTEMPORARY sources.******

But probably the earliest

> record
> is in the Armenian sources (Moses Horenaci, Jovannes
>
> Draskhanakertaci) who speak of a migration of
> Bulgars to their
> lands under the leadership of a certain Vanand,
> after whom they
> became known as 'Vanandians'. The event took place
> at the time
> of 'king Arshaces', usually taken to be Arshaces II
> or the last
> Arshaces - Arshaces III, and thus - during the
> second half of
> the 4th c. Others argue for Arshaces I (I c. AD). If
> interested,
> check

http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/armen/armen_2.html


*****GK: Again, one has to check the specifics of
these Armenian sources. They are not CONTEMPORARY.
AFAIK the Bulgars enter history in the 6th c. AD under
that name. Some proto-"Bulgar" groups may have had a
prior history as "Huns" or by other names, but that is
a different issue.*****


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