From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 15534
Date: 2002-09-17
----- Original Message -----
From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <gknysh@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:46 AM
Subject: [tied] Slavs, Gepids and Avars
>. Could it therefore be
> that it is not the Slavs who left Transylvania in the
> second half of the 7th c., but the Gepids under Avar
> pressure? If so where did they go? Perhaps they joined
> those Gepids who had remained in the area of the
> Danubian plains. Paulus Diaconus, writing ca. 790
> pointed out that there were still Gepidic populations
> in the Avar state at that time. Just as it was about
> to be overwhelmed by Charlemagne. The Slavic presence
> in Transylvania was still quite noticeable when the
> Rus' Primary Chronicle was composed. ******
[Moeller]
you are right with the presence of the slavs in Dacia as it is
said in Rus'Primary Chronicle.Not only this one, but all the
hungarian gestae say the same thing.
And here is a very intersting point. Kendreros tell us about
the city of Kampa Longu . Should be it an another as the
romanian Câmpul Lung?
And in this case we got an another image here: let me please
quote from an another guy:
"There seems to have been a sharp cultural cleavage between
the upper classes, who had not only received a literary
education in Latin and Greek, but probably spoke one of other
of these languages, and the mass of the people, who were not
only illiterate, but spoke in a different tongue?it is clear
that many of the common people, not only peasants but
townspeople, had no knowledge of Greek or Latin." (A.H.M.
Jones, The Later Roman Empire, Basil Blackwell 1964, p. 995)"
This explains the easyness of the act of Justinian of changing
the "official language" of Romania from latin to greek with
the reason "the folk did not understood latin anymore": I beg,
they understood less greek as latin too, in fact to the folk,
it was properly unimportant which is the official language.
The most known "canabae" which was supposed to be in the
neighbourship of castres appears very late. just with Seprimus
Severus ( 193 AC) are allowed such canabae.And that is indeed
late. Long time after 118 as Hadrian changed the rules for
army and every legion got new soldier from the places where
they were stationated. Meaing from the autochtonus people. So,
no chanse to forget a language. The soldiers learned maybe
latin, but they used their own language too because it is
normaly. Just because we are soldiers we will do not speak
only latin. We will use latin for oficial reasons. And I doubt
theis "official latin" was more as a Verkehrsprache.
The Verkehrsprache, the language of comunication with
authorities ,it was kinda english from today where the papuas
& eskimo& englishman and the rumanian speak together. And if I
use this language more or less, it doesnt mean I speak with my
family english too.Or with my children or with my country men.
It happens only if I am living in the middle of a folk which
speak english and I am alone with no one of my country men.
Even in united states. After almost 300 years there are
comunities of polish, czech, irish, romanians, germans and so
on. And where these comunities are big enough, they will use
thier language paralell with the official one.
Under such considerations appears as normaly to have such a
large "substratum" in romanian . There are thousends of words
not 180
Such kind of information shows us that the "billinguism" ,
together mingling, forgetting own language and stuff was not
so properly as we will like to think.
The fact that even today we have enclaves of foreign folks in
the mass of thenational state sshows us that in the middle age
was, if any, a very _small_ assimilation of x in y . This is
happened just begining with "national states", and has had a
more or less success.( refering to the big mass not to y,z,x
who are more the exceptions from the rule)