From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 15446
Date: 2002-09-13
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:28 PM
Subject: [tied] Celery
> As said, only /di/ Lat. > /dzi/ > /zi/ Rom. or /de/ >
/*die/ >
> /dze/ > /ze/. Otherwise, /d/.
Romanian dinte 'tooth' < Latin (acc.) dentem? (See
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/15056 for a
brief
discussion)
[Moeller] this is not the only eyample. After this rule lat.
"di" or "de" we wil have to assume that not dinte but zimte
derive from latin.
In fact I try now to find some words from latin where di de
did not went dz or z
let se with "de"
first is the romanian "de" which is de and not "dz" or "z"
adevar=truth supposed to be a word from an latin expression
ad+de+verum
arde= to burn suppose to comme from latin ardere
îndemna= to make someon to do something supposed to comme from
latin *indeminare
deget= finger = lat digetus
descarca= to unload= lat. discarricare
--until here we observe that there are romanians word with the
particle "de" which particle comme prom a latin "de" or "di",
but there is no "dz" or "z"
Second is the romanian "di" which is not "dz" or "z"
adia = to blow slovly ( about wind) supposed to comme from lat
*adilia
dinte = lat.dentus
adineauri= shows a fact which just happened kinda "right now
it has been"= lat . ad+de+in+illa+hora
We observe here too that is not a rulle , like in the first
set of exemples. Even here the romanian "di" is supposed to
come from lat. de or di and there is too no "dz" or "z"
In fact "de" is in romanian very much used for prefixing words
.OK. Let us see what for words are in romanian which begin
with "z" ( words with "dz" you wont find in DEX because words
with "dz" are regionals, so they are given "literary" with "z"
instead of "dz").
So we will take some words which begin with "z":
zãcea= to lie down sick= lat. jacere
zânã= godess in romanian stories= probable lat. Diana
zbate= to move himselv hard and quick like the fish out of
water= lat exbattere
zbura= to fly = lat *exvolare
That was "all latin" with the words which begin with "z" until
group"ze" . And There are 7 DIN A 4 pages in DEX , words with
"z" until group"ze" where we have just 4 words which are
supposed to be latin. I dont think now at the latin "z" , we
know there were a few words in latin. but de and di which have
had to make the job for going "dz" or "z" in romanian
.Weird,.... by myself I should never tought there could be so
few... a lot with unknown etymology.... hmm. OK
Let se the words where we have alreadi the begin of the word
with "ze" in romanian:
zeamã= broth, souce= lat zema ( lat zema=? I could not find
it )
zece= teen = lat. decem
zestre=dowry= lat. dextrae
zeu= god=lat. deus
We are at the end of group "ze".The words which begin with
group "ze" are 2 DIN A4 pages but because of teh derivats, it
make no sense to count them. Normaly I have to take the root,
but now I dont intend to do this , just constate.
So in 2 DINA4 are just 4 without to discuss them.
I dont know if it words to get along. I stop here. If someone
wants indeed, I will try to find all "latin" words at the
letter "z" , but belive me, here is as at the letter "tz". We
have almost as nothing latin..
Such observations cannot be considered comming from a "bad
mind". These are the facts. Or better said, the words,
romanian language...