Re: [tied] Piotr and the Dacians:-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Piotr and the Dacians:-)


>
> There are Arumanians in Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia
and Serbia, Megleno-Romanians in Greece, and Istro-Romanians
in Croatia. None of those places (with the probable exception
of northern Danubian Bulgaria and the adjacent parts of
eastern Serbia) was inhabited by Getic speakers until the
resettlement of the Roman Dacians.
>
[Moeller] and if I tell you that in my opinion the aromanians,
are the last thracians you will laugh out loud, for sure:-))

> > - how could the new commers spread over such a big areal
until ukraine
>
> How was the West won? By colonists looking for new
opportunities.
[Moeller] ahahhaa. Yes.Do you forget about the times? About
the structure, organization AND complementary and antagonistes
forces? There was not as in America just Indians against a lot
of europeans. But we got a lot of people who tried to get
control over. And beside the goths, huns, gepidae, avars,
cumans, pecenges, the best force of all was the colonist? I
just ask myself if this is really your serios opinion about:-)

>
> > - how could the new commers get so large in a such shortly
time
>
> Who says it happened overnight? Transylvania was
Hungarian-dominated until rather late.

[Moeller] yeap. And the olah did not maghyarized.. Why? In
fact it should have had done it. It was a populatiaon with a
language in motion. In II-III AC thracian, In IV-VI latin, in
VI-IX latino-slav, from IX until XIX time enough to become
maghyars.. So? Where is the mass of seeing the things here? If
1 cm is 1 cm then with this 1 cm you will have to see the
distances. Not here with 1 m and there with 1 mm. And what I
say here is not enthusiasmus, but again, a method of
bricklayers. If you dotn do so, you will get a hous which in
shortly time will fall down on you.


>
> > - where exactly is in balcan thier home land?
>
> Roughly the modern territory of Macedonia, southern Serbia
and western Bulgaria. That's what I'd put my money on. The
Albanians also originated somewhere within this area.

[Moeller] because of "Durmitor and the rest of toponimes more
there and beacuse there should be found Albanians of course. I
will sugest you to take a look at how old are the qwords which
are common in romanian and albanian. This will show you for
yourself that we have here pre-roman times. I will refresh as
linguist my knowdlege too here. If possible alone, with my
ideeas and with the exemples which we klnow, not exemples
seeing trough a persepctive of an another linguist. See, what
I said is for a linguist. For a John Normal Buyer as me, I
have to hear what say a lingvist sometimes:-))

>
> > - where exactly is in Italy their hme land?
>
> What's Italy got to do with it??

[Moeller]Ask George Kynsh and what he said from Nestro with
"Vlahu Zemlya" which should have been Italy:-)

>
> > - this is the only migration which remain undocumentated
>
> Au contraire. Many migrations, even massive ones, are hard
to document in detail.

[Moeller]I like you. :-) "in detail". But we know of them.
About the migration of the vlahs, it happens to be the
exception which confirm the rule, isnt it?:-))

>
> > - this is the only migration from south to north of danube
>
> Sorry, I didn't realise it was a one-way road. Is there a
rule against moving north in the Balkans? How did the
Neolithic spread north from the Balkans, then?

[Moeller] I told you to go back, but not soooo far .. It is
suffienctyl to go to the years of the big migrations. There is
our problem, isnt it? And for that milenium of dark in East
Europe we have the time of migrations.. And there are all the
migrations recordes. All. Of, course, except valahians. They
have been too smart and they migrated just in the dark for not
beeing recorded by someone:-))


>
> > - where have they been until X centuries
>
> See above.
>
[Moeller] where above? In neoliticum?

> > - the name of the country. It was Dacia, becam Gothia,
Gepidia, Part of Avarian Kaghanate, Cumania, but remained as a
stamp for everybody in time as "Dacia"
>
> Well, names of Roman provinces tend to be remembered, for
obvious historical reasons. So what? Toscany is still called
after the Etruscans, Silesia after the Silings, Macedonia
after the ancient Macedonians, Bohemia and Bavaria after the
Boii, etc. "Dacia" is a historical memory. The country is
called Romania now. If you call France "Gaul" for rhetorical
purposes, you won't resurrect ancient Gaul.

[Moeller] Yes. The name Apperas at Horatius and Vergilius and
Ovid too, because this was a Roman Province. And in the best
spirit of the ancient precursors, the byznathine chronicars
kept the same name for avoiding a topssy-turvy of the names.
Even if some Emperors made them the live hard creating several
Dacias. That is too a very strange thing, but not of interest
in this thread:-)


>
> > - do not compare with albanian and take PIE roots and
applay them to romanian substrate. See what about.
Satem?Centum? Both?
>
> As I said, Satem and related to Albanian (which is a Satem
language, not a hybrid). Why "not compare", if most of the
"Balkan substrate" words in Romanian have clear Albanian
cognates?

[Moeller]you will tell me thath "th" and "dh" of allbanias is
related to romanian?Do you really talk about the fonetism of
the romanian and albanian language? Have you heard an albanian
speaking in his native language? But a romanian? So "maza:re"
is related to "modhulle:" for you just because they are to
find only in these two language or because they have had the
same evolution from PIE. I just will like to see your rules
here:-))
>
> > - why doesnt the plants found at dioscoride match with
albanian plants name?
>
> I haven't got Dioscorides' list to hand, but I believe the
element <-dela> is rather common in supposedly Dacian plant
names: cf. dialectal Alb. dyell (pl. dej) 'plantain'. The word
<mantia> 'blackberry' has plausible Albanian connections as
well. Folk names of medicinal plants are notoriously variable.
You won't find many German ones with English cognates.

[Moeller] Piotr... belive me. You as foreigner cannot be your
best try make a very good job here. You need to really know
romanian. Or to let someone to give you a list with all
substratum and all regionals and most of them , even the
archaic words which are not in use anymore today....What you
will do, the resultat will be that one on the volume of
informations you could get . No more:-(
I put one qwuestion and you answer " there is no cognate
betwen German and English for instance" bu twe dont talke
about 2 folks here. We speak about the supposition the
Albanians are the dacians. And albanians TODAY are either
latinised people, nor slavised people. they have a very
ancient language. Assuming an evolution of the words, with
80% you will have these plants there. But they arent. And that
means they are not the dacians. And the Albanians never say
they are Dacians. Just some lingvistic models would like to do
it. Hmm... in fact, how the romanians say,, the caravane goes,
the dog bels...



>> You mean Salda? It seems to me you're trying very hard to
smuggle in more "apas" than can really be found in Dacian. I
know nothing of Dacian "Aparia" or "Aparus" and I'd appreciate
some evidence that the names are genuine (as for Salapia ...
you know what). Many Dacian toponyms are practically
unanalysable. We'd have to know their meaning before we decide
whether or not they have any Albanian (or Romanian)
connections. "Darsos" looks like something Thracian to me. As
for Naparis, I doubt very much if it can have anything to do
with the Romanian word for the blindworm, as you suggested
some time ago: blindworms are not aquatic.

[Moeller] naparca is the usual word for serpent my dear. I
have no ideea who gice you such informations but ok let see
what the DEX means:

naparca
1) lat. Anguis Fragilis, lizard
2) popular=viper Expr. "pui de naparca"= very bad guy
3) a small and thin boat for navigation. mm. there is a sens
more I will tell you in erman, my english let me die here..
Peitsche,
Who told you about a blindworm?Grrrr.. About the rest of
toponyms and hydronims. Do you will let me post a big map here
on files? Is indeed 1,5 MB but a excelent quality. You will
see for yourself. May I ?