On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 02:19:12 +0000, "Glen Gordon" <
glengordon01@...>
wrote:
>Miguel:
>>1st person _indirect_ object marker.
>
>Perhaps you didn't understand the first time. It doesn't matter
>whether it's a direct or indirect marker. It's unlikely for an
>ending that starts off being exclusive to the 1ps to spread to
>all persons.
*Except* the first...
>That's ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous when
>you claim that they just happen to "lose" their meanings and then
>are somehow arbitrarily used for a completely different function
>altogether. I think your theory is mad. I'm just letting you know
>that out of the kindness of my black heart.
Let's see what a practical example shows. The only Uralic language that has a
6x6 verbal grid is Mordvin (other Uralic languages have grids for sg., (du.) and
pl. object, but restricted to a 3rd. person def. object, or at least severely
reduced for persons 1 & 2 as objects [Hungarian retains a special form for 1st
person sg. acting on 2nd person, -lak]).
The Erza Mordvin grid looks like this:
1 2 3 1 2 3
1 -- -tan -sa -- -tadiz' -sin'
2 -samak -- -sak -samiz' -- -sit'
3 -samam -tanzat -si -samiz' -tadiz' -sinze
1 -- -tadiz' -sin'ek -- -tadiz' -sin'ek
2 -samiz' -- -sink -samiz' -- -sink
3 -samiz' -tadiz' -siz' -samiz' -tadiz' -siz'
Obviously, we are dealing with a lot of syncretism, as is typical of these kind
of verbal grids (even in so-called "agglutinative" languages like Mordvin).
Do we have a 1st person suffix attached to a non-1st person subject form? Yes:
Moksha -saman (Erza -samam) "he X-es me" is to be analyzed as *-sa- (3rd.p.
subject) *-ma- (1st. person object) *-n (1st person subject). Do we have
originally personal endings used to express temporal didtinctions? Yes: the 1st
person object series, -samak, -saman, -samiz', -samiz' (Moksha -samak, -saman',
-samas't', -samaz'), incorporates a 3rd. person singular marker *-sa- which is
used in the present tense only. The perfect has -mik, -mim, -miz', -miz'
(Moksha -majt, -man', -mas't', -maz') [the same goes for 2nd person *-ta- in
-tanzat, -tadiz', pf. -n'z'it', -d'iz'].
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...