From: Miguel Carrasquer
>[Moeller] so in this case you suppose as fallow:The fact that the Italians, French and Catalans say formaggio, fromage and
>- the germans made this word. The galloromanic got it from germans.( untill XV century
> we have the word attested in french)
>- the romanians got it from somewhere ( it doesnt matter right now where from)
>Untill here sounds OK to me too. But:
>-the senses in the old french was the same as in romanian: a short ax, a long ax for
>fighting developing in this time some expresions " Ho, cã nu am dat cu barda" " I didnt meant it so".
>- the german lost that word. In german is known just Hallebarde which is a new word.( composed, of course )
>These two points make me to think that is unlikely the whole supposition .
>[Miguel]The loss of a penultimate short (and therefore unstressed) vowel in Latin is
>The Vulgar Latin form was vetránu ~ betránu, with syncope of the unstressed
>second vowel in a three-syllable word, as is normal, and with hesitation between
>initial b- an v-, which is sporadic. In Romanian, we would expect *vãtrân, but
>we have bãtrân.
>[Moeller] in this case we have to assume the word was already in the latin of II centuries in use and even with sincope.
>1)Are you aware of regions where inscriptions with "vetranu or betranu" where found and from which centuries?
>2) Why should have had latin in the II century the word "veteranus " with the second syllable as unstressed?I know of no language where re-borrowed vèterá:n(us) is stressed on the second
>I mean, in every language from today ( where we have the reloaned word) the "te" from "veteranus" is stressed,
>where the second "e" is strongly accented as first e. This will lead one to say even in the II century AC
>the word should have had a stress on the second "e"