----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] barba, farfeche, bãiat
>vegliot=vetrun, old venetian=vetrano, old sardic=betran,
>albanian vjetruar.Veteranus comes from vetus in latin and all
>come from an PIE *uet- "an". It is excluded the albanian have
>their word from latin because they have vit ( pl. vijet)
That Albanian has retained the PIE word *wet(es)- "year" is
true, but it doesn't
mean that vjetruar (< *wetra:nV) can't be from Latin. In fact
it *must* be,
because Albanian native words do not have the development /s/
> /r/ typical of
Latin (*wetesa:nos > vetera:nus).
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
just in gallic and rumanian this word has a wider sens as ax
for fighting. The germans loaned it just with the sense of
fight, and the hungarian and the slavic people too. The
germans were in gallic theritories but in thracian theritories
too. For me is hard to say now, where they got it from. But is
a loanword with 2 possiblities: thracian or celtic. The
hungarian , slavs ar enew into this ecuation so we let them .
The question is. Where did the rumanians have this word with
the several senses as in galloromanic, because the word barde
was not known in latin. This means , just substrate. And we
have another point which point out the simility among old
celtic and thracian even if now, people run away from
constructs like celto-tracian and still are more of us who
belive Decev was right with his satem type of dacian.
I agree with you here Miguell. I will take two more words from
latin and their corespondence to romanian:
vettelus< in rom. vitzel, vitella< vitzea. We observ that
latin "ti" and "te" became into romanian "tzi " and "tze" and
that "v" remains and does not change into "b".
So if romanian bãtrân commes from veteranus we MUST have the
form "vitzern" in romanian, but not bãtrân.
And the form "vitzern" will should have its corespondents into
vegliot vetrun, old venetian vetrano .
The old sardic form batran has other explanation, and I am
afraid this is too because of action of substrate. I got just
the example with vetellus , but there many examples of course.
It could be from my side even from paleolitic-)))
. Fact is, we have almost the same pronounciation boi=ba:i and
both refer to a male child. And again in a celtic and thracian