Re: [tied] The phonetic value of PIE *h3 and the 'drink' root.

Sorry for replying prematurely earlier...

On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:33:03 +0200 (MET DST), Jens Elmegaard Rasmussen
<jer@...> wrote:

>That a: are influenced by i: stems is generally assumed also for the
>gen.-dat.-loc. -i of Armenian a-stems; for the gen.-dat. -e of Albanian
>a-stems; for OIr. gen. -e of a:-stems. I would add also the "i-Motion" of
>Luwian and Lycian.

But the cases of Armenian and Old Irish (and presumably Albanian,
although I don't have the exact Auslautgesetze at hand), are very
different from the case of Sanskrit. In Armenian and Old Irish the
old a:-stem endings had eroded away (-a:s > -0 for the G.), and it's
prefectly understandable that endings were borrowed from the i:-stems.
Such is definitely not the case in Sanskrit.

As to the Luwian and Lycian i-Motion, I raise you the Hittite i-stem
adjectives (oblique in -aya- = Sanskrit -a:ya:- = PIE *-oyah2- ?).

>> >> [Jens:]
>> >> >Greek épion is no
>> >> >more secondary than Greek aorists at large, for the 3pl would have
>> been
>> >> >*pH3i-ént with that structure in any case.
>> >>
>> >[Miguel:]
>> >> The point is that é in *pH3i-ént is not the thematic vowel, which I
>> >> believe would have absorbed the *y.
>> >
>> >[JER:] the type is found in, e.g., Skt. syáti 'binds', dyáti 'binds',
>> >chyáti 'cuts', all without that absorbtion.
>
>> [...] In syáti, dyáti and chyáti we're dealing
>> with laryngeals again.
>
>Yes, that's what makes them parallel. Why claim deletion of /y/ in
>*-Hy-e/o- with thematic vowel as against *-Hy-e- with a normal vowel, if
>you observe it in neither case?

Your original statement was:

>The Greek aorist épion is of the type élipon, i.e. based on the
>zero-grade with thematic inflection, in this case *pH3i-e/o-. The
>structural basis of this stem type was no doubt the old 3sg middle of the
>root-aorist, utilized as the stem of a thematic inflection which was
>subsequently made active, i.e. 3sg mid. "*pH3i-é" -> 3sg act.
>"*pH3i-é-t". However, with this specific verb, it is probably better to
>depart from the 3pl root aor. *pH3i-ént assuming this structure to have
>been transferred to the *wid-é-t/*wid-ó-nt model.

I interpreted that as saying that the thematic vowel in épion is not
original, but analogical (either after 3sg. middle *-e, or 3pl.
*-e(nt)). That nicely solved a problem of mine, as I would have
expected a thematic vowel to have been deleted if it was original (and
if there was no early laryngeal metathesis in these cases, i.e. epion
< *(h1e)-pih3-o-m [likewise *siH-e-, diH-e-, skiH-e-], in which case
the problem also disappears).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...