Re: [tied] A problem with PIE *p(o)lH-

It's an old problem. The Greek variation pt- ~ p- recurs in <p(t)olemos> (and related words). We also have pt- ~ ps- in <ptilon> ~ Dor. <psilon>. <ptisso: ~ ptitto:> is probably somehow related to Slavic *pIx-, Lat. pinso:, and Skt. pinas.t.i (pis.-). Perhaps Greek was simply more likely to retain early *pt-, simplified elsewhere; cf. Slavic *pero : Gk. pteron. In the last example at least *pt- reflects a real cluster rather than a mystery proto-phoneme, since it alternates with *pet-.

Piotr (whose name has something to do with the question)

----- Original Message -----
From: sergejus_tarasovas

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:01 AM

Subject: [tied] A problem with PIE *p(o)lH-

Gr. _po'lis_ 'town' is routinely compared with Lith. _pili`s_ 'castle' and Skt. _pu:'r_ 'fortified place', and on this base something like PIE *p(o)lH- 'fortified place' is usually reconstructed. I have no problem with the Old Indo-Aryan and Lithuanian lexemes (the last even seems to point to a possible etymology -- cf. Lith. _pi`lti_ 'to pour, to fill' (< *plh1-) and a deverbative _py'limas_ 'rampart', lit. 'what is piled up' (here -yl- from -il- by Schleicher's pseudo-apophony, -yR- < -iR- (R - sonorant) being one of the most trivial cases); the Greek one, however, has an alternative form -- _pto'lis_ 'id.', and if Myc. Gr. _po-ta-ri-jo_ does belong here, _pto'lis_ seems to be the older one, making a comparison with the Old Indo-Aryan and Lithuanian lexemes at least problematic. Any ideas? Sergei