From: guto rhys
Message: 13991
Date: 2002-07-12
I'm not sure when Kenneth Jackson places the initial mutation s to h, but I would be careful with using the Sabrina/Hafren example to date the change at, or after the time when the Anglo-Saxons reached that area. I believe he locates the change around the beginning of the 4th century but the situation is far from clear, Welsh/Brythonic preserving a number of initial 's''s - sedd, souezet, (also borrowed from Latin: Cornish 'Sadorn', Breton 'sec�h', Welsh 'saeth'); while also changing some: Welsh 'haul', Breton �holen', Cornish 'hyns'. I believe Jackson ascribes this to some borrowings from Latin after lenition.
Militarily the A-Saxons took 5 large towns (Bath, Gloucester etc.) after their victory in 577 - the battle of Deorham (Anglo-Saxon chronicles). English preserving the unlenited form (Severn) may be due to other reasons, for example the names of large rivers are often amongst the first elements borrowed into 'foreign' languages. E.g We all know the river-name Congo but how many towns can you name along it? The river name Severn was probably well-known amongst the ship-loving, sea-roving 'English' long before they reached the area. Alternatively it could have been taken from a Latin rather than a Brythonic source (which had not lenited initial 's'). The linguistic situation in Britain in this period is hotly debated and Latin may well have survived long after the collapse of centralised Roman rule, rather like the supposedly functioning fountains in Carlisle in the 7th century.
alexmoeller@... wrote:
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
An: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juli 2002 13:46
Betreff: [tied] hal
>
>
> They produced salt in the area around Halle (in Thuringia, Germany).
> There is an ancient salt mine in Bad Hallein, Austria.
>
> Celtic doesn't have *s- -> *h- (like Greek), or? Might there be
> another candidate laguage in that area with that development?
>
> Torsten
[Moeller] in the aera am not sure but in tha Scythia Minor we have
attested the old dacian word Halmaris .(I guess Procopius or Tabula
Pentaugina, must re-read for confirmation.)
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