Re: The phonetic value of PIE *h3 and the 'drink' root.

--- In cybalist@..., "sergejus_tarasovas" <S.Tarasovas@...> wrote:

> In the _Elements of Indo-European Phonology_ published on the

TITUS'

> website (http://titus.fkidg1.uni-

frankfurt.de/didact/idg/idgphon.htm)

> *h3 is ascribed a phonetic value of [voiced faryngeal fricative],

and

> it's stated there, that it therefore can trigger regressive
> assimilation, switching a preceding voiceless consonant to its

voiced

> allophone. Thus, it's stated, that the cluster /ph3/ phonetically
> surfaces as [b`] in the same manner as /pd/ surfaced as [bd]; the
> examples provided include 3 pl. present of the drink-verb,
> reconstructed there as *piph3enti [pib`onti], allegedly continued

in

> OInd. _pibanti_, Lat. _bibunt_, OIr. _ibat_ and *h2eph3o:n

[hab`o:n]

> 'watery' (N.sg), continued in OIr. _aub_.
>
> That raises a lot of questions.
> 1. Is anybody on the list aware of other examples, both pro and
> contra?
> 2. If Piotr's treatment of the drink-verb
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/7986, also
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/7968) is correct,
> *piph3enti is an impossible form, the correct form being *pipiHenti
> (since 1. the root would be *peiH- rather that *peH- + *-i-; 2. the
> exact quality of the laryngeal is unknown, since -o- in forms like
> *po:- and *poi- is accounted for by the qualitative ablaut rather
> than the o-colouring laryngeal; 3. the word looks like an athematic
> intensive from athematic *peiH-/*poiH- formed by "i-grade
> reduplication").
> But then, I with my rather dilettanticly straightforward way of
> thinking can't see how *pipiHenti would account for, say, OInd.
> _pibanti_ and Lat. _bibunt_. Why _b_, indeed? Why Latin -unt- in

case

> the laryngeal is not restricted to *h3?
> And, last not least, why *piHV- > *pV? One would expect *pijV- (if
> from *pi.HV-) or at least *pjV- (if from tautosyllabic *piHV-, this
> would assume the sonority of the laryngeal to be greater than that

of

> *i [j].
>
> Sergei

Given that Sergei apologizes for what he himself describes as his
amateur status, I shouldn't be writing this at all. But supposing I
have understood what the subject is, this question popped up in my
mind:

If some PIE verbal or nominal root contains the ablaut vowel
[e/o/nothing], and that

PIE -peH-/-poH-/-pH- -> -pe:-/-po:-/-b'-
(applicable also to other stops of course)

does that mean that (verbal or nominal) root would end up as a
pradigm with a "mixed" root (-p-t-/-p-d-) which might be levelled
either way?

Torsten