[tied] Re: Europeans descend from Basques

From: richardwordingham
Message: 13868
Date: 2002-06-17

Dear John,
Have you read
http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~macaulay/papers/richards_2000.pdf? It
talks of refuge areas both in S. W. France and Spain and in Italy, so
that after the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) Europe would have been
recolonised from both the South West and the Near East. I don't know
whether 'South West' includes Italy or not; I don't see why not.
This spread is dated to c. 14.5kYBP. This scenario in itself
suggests that there would have been several language families
present, let alone several languages. I don't think any of us
believe there was a single, widespread langauge just before the
spread of IE. (In this context, 'Europe' excludes, at the very
least, Russia and the Caucasus.)

Under this scenario the Basque country might well be the Basque
urheimat (if earlier history is ignored), though I don't know if
Italy is excluded! In so far as one can trust populations to keep
their own languages (Glen doesn't!), an examination of the mtDNA
might exclude Italy. (The paper above gives a working hyperlink to
the data. Tread with care! An examination might be totally
inconclusive! Has any member of the group looked at this raw data?
I've only got as far as down-loading it.) It is not impossible that
Vasconic entered from the Near East after the LGM; the earliest
Europeans are best represented in Scandinavia, not the Basque country!

Spain has furnished written materials from classical times for at
least two languages (one is Iberian) unrelated to Indo-European,
Semitic or Basque and I think unrelated to one another! Adding
Aquitanian (reckoned as a relative, possibly ancestor) of Basque we
get three indigenous European languages unrelated to larger groups.
Some would add Pictish (though others will say that Pictish is
several languages, and some that it is Indo-European), and some will
reckon that Etruscan is indigenous.

One can envisage many different possible linguistic patterns prior to
the Neolithic. It is quite possible that languages related to IE
were already widely spread in Europe - some would cite Etruscan as an
example, though there is a strong tradition that it arrived from Asia
Minor relatively recently. (Is this tradition related to Aeneas's
flight from Troy to Latium?)

I suspect the Neanderthal and Vasconic lingerings-on have both
depended on peripherality. (There may be other parallels, e.g.
valley versus hill.) However, it is always possible that Vasconic
had a late expansion before the Roman conquests secured the
Mediterranean lands for Indo-European.

Regards,
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpisc98357@... [mailto:jpisc98357@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 6:17 PM
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Europeans descend from Basques...


Dear Friends,

The Basques have been giving this group a lot of food for
thought.

Does anyone consider it possible that Europe was once populated
by many tribes using similar languages and that their survival
pattern followed that of the Neanderthals who once inhabited all of
Europe and the Near East?

The last pockets of Neanderthals are also speculated to have
lived in the Pyrennes Mountains and perhaps other parts of the
Iberian penninsula.

My personal belief is that the Basque territory was not the
Urheimat of the Basque people, only their last refuge in Europe where
a pocket managed to survive.

Here is a case where mtDNA studies might help.

Best Regards, John