Re: [tied] Re: Agriculture and IE

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 13422
Date: 2002-04-22

If you recall our discussion of the supposed phonetic realisation of the three dorsal series, the frequency and distribution of *k^ suggest that it was in fact the "plain" velar of PIE, i.e. /k/ pure and simple (presumably with some normally expected frontish allophones before front vowels), while *k must have been "marked" in some way (e.g. a retracted /q/). Now, as it would be extremely unusual for a phonemic inventory to contain palatal /c/ (or /ts'/), uvular /q/ and labiovelar /kW/ but no plain velar, it would seem that either the fronting of /q/, or the delabialisation of /kW/, or both, were part of the same shift that produced the satem palatals. My guess is therefore that the shifts (at least the crucial changes of k > c and kW > k) were virtually simultaneous, perhaps with subtle dialectal differences as regards the timing of q > k. For example, the fact that Armenian has satemised reflexes of sounds that have remained velar elsewhere may mean that a local merger of *k /q/ and *k^ /k/ took place before satemisation, while putative examples of unpalatalised PIE *k before front vowels in Albanian suggests that the change of q > k (and its merger with former *kW) was _later_ there than in the "core satem" group (Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian).
 
Piotr
 
  
----- Original Message -----
From: P&G
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Agriculture and IE

How late is Satemisation?   There are two events, the collapsing of *kW and *k, and the palatalisation of *k'.   These could be at different times, and the latter could be a wave phenomenon after dialects spread, while the first occurs before the satem dialects break up.

Do we have any clues as to a date, or an order of events?  I can think only of the later law of palatals in Sanskrit, which does not distinguish between *kw and *k, so the collapse of *kW and *k must be before the collapse of *e and *a and *o.