Re: [tied] IRMIN

From: tgpedersen
Message: 13338
Date: 2002-04-18

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
> To: cybalist@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:31 PM
> Subject: [tied] IRMIN
>
>
> But in that case Alanian would have *ala- from *arya- and *æliman-
> from *aryaman. That does not make sense.
>
> I sent a posting about this yesterday, but it seems to have been
lost.
>
> and cf.
>
> Lucien Musset: The Germanic Invasions
> (translated from: Les Invasions: Les Vagues Germaniques)
> p. 147, of the Lombards (Langobards)
> "
> ...
> There are signs suggesting the existence of colonies of <arimanni>
> (freemen liable for military service) at strategic points, for
> example at Friuli and at the entrances to Alpine passes.
> ...
> "
>
> In other words, there exists a Langobardic gloss <ariman-
> "freeman".
> The Langobards came from the Baltic coast. Note the /r/ reflex of
> <aryaman> here, as in (H)ermi(n)ones, Hermun-dur-i, or the king of
> the latter, Hermanaric, as opposed to the /l/ of Alan and Alaman.
So
> the invaders of Thuringia were not quite Alans.
>
> Torsten

--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> It would make no sense if the initial conditions had been the same
in both words, but they aren't. Note the different vowel quality in
*arya:na- and *aryaman-; it determines the distribution of "weak"
and "strong" vowels in the later reflexes of both forms. The former
yields *ala:n- > *ælan (long *a: > "strong" *a), the latter *alimán >
*(æ)liman (*ya > "weak" *i).

We're talking New Persian or Ossetic here, right? Thus, in those
languages consistently /æ/: <ælan>, (æ)liman, in Alanian /a/: *<alan-
>, *<alaman>

>
> <arimanni> 'warriors' represents Latinised Langobardic *harimann- <
*xarja-mann- 'army-man' (cf. the name Hermann, OHG heri, OE
here 'army'). Both elements are 100% Germanic.
>

But still, isn't it an extraordinary coincidence? I see the Alans and
their Germanic-speaking allies sitting at the campfire around a big
pot of cowboy coffee, singing:
"
You say ariman
we say ariman
and both words mean the same
and yet they are not related
"
(actually it sounds much better in the Alanian)


And BTW: *hariman. Note the asterisk. Not attested.


> Piotr
>

Torsten